This topic contains 53 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  uber7mm 11 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #32577
     kens 
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    Can you guys with a good eye for detail reflect on a Bubba mauser project that I have in mind. I’ll try to describe it to you, I can’t really wrap my mind around what it will look like in the end.
    Here are the parts I’m attempting to envision as a finished rifle for woodland deer hunting and carry on long walks/hikes. It is a short carbine 18″-20″ bbl.
    Mauser M95, MidwayUSA Shilin bbl .35rem, Boyds laminated nutmeg stock, Burris scout scope, chop barrel to 19″.
    I happen to find online a quarter rib, in the white, to fit the Shilen bbl contour. This led to to my vision of a short carbine length Safari looking profile.
    Mount the barrel band sling mount just ahead of the fore stock, and the bbl band sloped front sight as seen on Safari grade guns, and the Safari qtr rib to mount the scout scope on.

    To me, there is some kind of aesthetics about a Safari gun that simply “means business”, such as a double bbl shotgun looks to “take care of business”.
    I know the safari guns are to dispatch toothy, clawed African game, and the most I will dispatch is a bambi or a pig.
    I never gave this idea a thought until I stumbled upon the qtr rib easily available online, and the scout scope is on hand.
    This is to be a short bbl carbine, woods gun, short length of pull as well, since I often sit in tree stand,
    What will the combination of the short bbl, qtr rib, and scout scope look like?
    Look like a Youth Safari?
    Look like a bunch of mismatched Bubba parts?

  • #32582
     uber7mm 
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    Larry Gibson is your guy for these questions.

  • #32584
     skeettx 
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    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

    GO FOR IT and post pictures along the way

    Kind of Like a Remington 600

    http://www.gunbroker.com/item/611341971

    Mike

  • #32586
     kens 
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    Yes, kind of along those lines you posted.
    Yes, the forearm would likely need to be shortened, and possibly shorten qtr rib as well.
    I like the scnabble forend on yours.

  • #32650
     Goodsteel 
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    I’ve done this sort of thing several times, and it’s a very practical direction to take a rifle.
    Look at the Ruger Gunsight Scout carbine. That’s what you are talking about right out of the box (oh too tacticool? Strip it, ditch the flash hider, blue it up pretty, and voila).
    You lose surprisingly little with a 16″ barrel, and if combined with a low power Leupold scope (4X or 2-7X are superb) you have a very handy rifle for putting meat in the freezer with style.

  • #32652
     bjornb 
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    Here’s “Carmen”, pretty much what you describe, except she’s chambered in 30 XCB. Lothar Walther, light varmint profile, 19 1/2″, 1:14 twist. Built on an M95 Oviedo (1917) Mauser, Boyd’s laminate stock. Built by Goodsteel in 2014. If I were to comment on your plans, I’d strongly recommend you step up to an M98 or similar action. Both Tim and I agree that the rifle’s accuracy would have been better had we not gone with the older, sloppier M95. This rifle’s accuracy is certainly sufficient to put food on the table, , but as shooters and perfectionists we’d also like our rifles to perform MOA or better at the range.

  • #32655
     kens 
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    Goodsteel;n13112 wrote: I’ve done this sort of thing several times, and it’s a very practical direction to take a rifle.
    Look at the Ruger Gunsight Scout carbine. That’s what you are talking about right out of the box (oh too tacticool? Strip it, ditch the flash hider, blue it up pretty, and voila).
    You lose surprisingly little with a 16″ barrel, and if combined with a low power Leupold scope (4X or 2-7X are superb) you have a very handy rifle for putting meat in the freezer with style.

    I have a .35rem small ring barrel, and, a 35whelen large ring bbl, both are 1:14 twist.
    I have a Burris scout scope, and, a Zeiss 2-7×32.
    My thinking is leaning towards the small ring .35rem, with a quarter rib, and the scout scope
    thinking along the lines of a ‘Youth Safari’ gun

    The 35whelen bbl might get the new 98 receiver with the new bolt, with the new 35XCB mold.

  • #32658
     Larry Gibson 
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    I like scout rifles.

    I don’t like really short barreled scout rifles.

    Sounds like a contradiction doesn’t it? Well it’s not. Since Cooper’s Scout Rifle concepts were 1st published in G&A back in the ’70s I have had numerous different scout rifles. I’ve had 30-30s (still have one) configured that way, bolt actions of various cartridges up through 8×57 and 30-06 and gas guns of 5.56, 7.62×39 and 7.62 NATO. I have had them with barrels from 16.5 to 24″ long. I’ve shot out a couple barrels on them. I’ve learned a couple things along the way;

    A rifle with a long eye relief scope mounted forward does not a scout make…….especially with a high mounted scope or one that hangs back over the action……..the scope must be a proper scout type with correct intermediate eye relief. The scope also must be mounted correctly on the rifle with the ocular lens housing over the top of the front receiver ring and as low as possible. It is the myriad of incorrect scopes mounted incorrectly that give scout rifles a bad rap.

    I’ve not found any rifle having a barrel less than 20″ to be of any practical benefit. The only benefit is in transporting in a vehicle. Actually I prefer 22″ barrels at a minimum and very much prefer 24 or 26″ barrels. I have used carbines, rifles and even machineguns in the densest of forests/jungles and in CQB and have found if a shorter barrel is needed then a handgun or subgun is best. Also if a few more inches of barrel is a hindrance carrying the rifle slinged over the shoulder then a bit better weapons craft learning how to properly carry a slinged rifle in those conditions and how to present a rifle in dense forests is better, to me anyway, than cutting off barrel length.

    However, kens has his dream and I shall not try to dissuade him. His project sounds excellent to me with the exception of the barrel length. I suggest he start with a 22″ barrel and find out first if it is a hindrance. If the 3 extra inches of barrel are a hindrance then he can easily have them removed. On the other hand if he finds a 19″ barrel a tad on the short side it’s not easy to add 3″ of barrel. I say….go for it!

    Let me add that I learned to disagree with Coopers overall dimensions of the Scout rifle concepts of weight and length. The current crop of commercial scout rifles leave me cold. My FR8 in 7.62 NATO comes about as close as I think Coopers original concept for a scout rifle in a military “scout” context. However. the overall length and weight exceed the “scout concept”. It is hell for stout, is in an acceptable readily available military cartridge of sufficient power, can be reloaded singly or via stripper clip, has excellent back up iron sights, has a flash suppressor that works, has a properly mounted scout scope of 2×7 power and is accurate enough to engage personnel to 600m with M80 ammunition. Also in a military context is my AR in M16 configuration with a forward coaxial mounted Eotech. The M1 Carbine in scout configuration would suffice ( used one quite successfully in the past SE Asian war games) for personal defense or a SHTF scenario, especially with proper handloads. The Swede M38 and Argie M91 are just excellent sporter allocation of the scout concept with the exception of the longer barrel on each.


  • #32659
     Larry Gibson 
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    BTW, I also rebarreled a M91 Argentine with a Shilen 35 Rem barrel from Brownell’s. No scope on it but it is amazingly effective. Barrel is still 26″. 1st pic shows 100 yard (2 groups) and 200 yard groups with the RCBS 35-200-FN.

    Larry Gibson


  • #32661
     kens 
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    Larry, your killing me,
    your addressing all the same things going thru my own mind.
    I have opened a couple threads here already and was about to open another one that you touched on above…..’slings and how to carry a rifle’
    There is 2 point, 3 point, slings in different configurations. I don’t know all of them.
    But this much I do know , I been hiking/walking with a 98K (.308) sling over my back and it feels heavy & bulky & cumbersome to get into a tree stand (it wears a weaver K4)
    I also have a Browning Abolt .270 with a scope. It also is too big, and the full size bbl snags bushes & vines a lot. Also too big for tree stand.
    The .308 I have downloaded to .30-30+P ballistics; the .270 is unreal for 35yd to a deer. I am walking/hiking for health an Dr’s orders. I want something light & handy.
    Bolt guns (mausers) have an appeal that gas guns can’t provide. I got several actions around.
    You guys talking the appeal of .35cal; made me buy a Midway .35rem bbl at clearance price (shilen). I like to tinker with bubba mausers anyway.
    Many times I have had deer in the scope crosshairs only to have a full scope full of hair unable to see the vitals shot image. The low power scout scope idea has appeal to me because of this.
    When I am not actually walking, and actually doing the hunt, I am in deep woods, in the deer cover, in a tree stand.
    Light recoil & muzzle blast from a tree stand is paramount as well, so a full house .270 is not really for that. That is why I downloaded the .308 with a 30-30 bullet.
    I have always been a caster, since I was shooting muzzle loaders at Friendship as a Junior match shooter. Muzzle loaders & round balls is what I grew up on as a kid. Competed at Friendship and took home some hardware to boot.
    Larry, with your work on twist rate for cast, I found the only affordable barrels for me are the Midway (brownells) .35cal available in 1:14 twist. Everything else is fast twist that is affordable.
    So that is why I got the shilen 35rem for the small ring. Later on I saw the Midway quarter rib that fits the shilen barrel that I had just bought. then the light came on in my head and I thought about the small size, short, ‘Youth Safari’ gun.
    So, maybe you can open a thread telling about the right way to carry a rifle?

  • #32869
     Larry Gibson 
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    kens

    I started a sling carry thread on the main forum……:D

    Larry Gibson

  • #32873
     kens 
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    I got the Burris scout scope out of the closet and it is actually a 2.75 power scout scope.
    I got the little ’95 mauser to feed .35rem round nose jacketed up the feed ramp.
    Now Im confident to pull the barrel for the new Shilen .35rem

  • #33311
     kens 
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    Can you guys post ballistic data for a brainstorm of mine, pls.
    My idea is the .35rem small ring mauser that I am now putting together,
    I intend for it to be small, light, tree stand carbine, light recoil, light muzzle blast, and easy to hike with, and badd voodoo on whitetails.
    I am proposing the .35rem load to duplicate .357mag (muzzle) power but deliver that at 100yards.
    So, if .357 spits out 158gr @ 1300fps (muzzle); then what muzzle velocity is 35rem for it to deliver 1300fps downrange @ 100yds.?
    Can one of you guys post the ballistic data for a load like that?

  • #33312
     Larry Gibson 
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    For the 158 Hornady XTP you’ll need 1600 fps…..very doable with 2400 in the 35 Rem.

    —————————– Program Inputs ———————————+
    | |
    +—- Bullet Inputs —–+—-Atmosphere Inputs —-+——-Sight Inputs ——+
    | Caliber: 0.358 inches | Temperature: 59 degrees | Sight Height: 1.5 inches |
    | Weight: 158 grains | Pressure: 29.92 inHg | Zero Range: 100 yards |
    | G1 BC: 0.199 lb/in^2 | Humidity: 0 % | Look Angle: 0 degrees |
    | G1 Form Factor: 0.885 | Density: 0.07647 lb/ft^3 +——– Stability ——-+
    | MZL Velocity: 1600 fps| Wind Speed: 10 mph | Twist Rate: 14 in/turn |
    | | Wind Direction: 3 O’clock| Blt Length: .68 inches |
    +————————+————————–+————————–+

    +—————————– Program Output ———————————+
    Range Velocity Energy Trajectory TOF Drift
    (yards) (fps) (ft-lb) (inches) (sec) (inches)
    0 1600 898 -1.50 0.0000 0.00
    50 1442 730 1.35 0.0988 -0.89
    100 1303 596 0.00 0.2083 -3.67
    150 1187 495 -6.47 0.3290 -8.42
    200 1097 422 -19.10 0.4607 -15.10
    250 1028 371 -38.95 0.6021 -23.50
    300 975 333 -67.01 0.7521 -33.40

  • #33313
     kens 
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    Thanks,
    So I see it loses about 300fps per 100yds.
    That would be little more than a plinker in .35rem, and still it is deer medicine at 100yds.

  • #33320
     Scharfschuetze 
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    kens;n13979 wrote: Thanks,
    So I see it loses about 300fps per 100yds.
    That would be little more than a plinker in .35rem, and still it is deer medicine at 100yds.

    I’ve been using a new chronograph that gives me velocities of the projectile at four distances between the muzzle and 100 yards. With the 30/30 using a 170 cast grain bullet (311041-170 grains), the velocity loss at 100 yards has been right at 300 fps which certainly matches the the penultimate post. While not actually a 35 Remington, it’s probably a pretty good prediction for your rifle.

  • #33322
     kens 
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    Thanks,
    I think the power of .357mag is plenty medicine for deer, and if I can match that same power out to 100yds, then this should be a easy firing gun in a tree stand, and handy to walk with.
    If a full house load for .35rem is 200gr @ 2100fps, then 160gr @ 1600 would be real light recoil and flinch factor.

  • #34283
     kens 
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    This project has been on again, off again type of thing. I got laid off in February and got slowed down. I concentrated on things that don’t cost money directly. I blueprinted the action, tried to fit the barrel, and the threads didn’t fit correct. I called the barrel maker and inquired, they told me to send it in to them. I sent it in and they fitted the barrel, stamped the caliber, tested it, and returned it. and at no cost. !!!!
    I guess now I need a stock

  • #34291
     uber7mm 
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    Being laid off sucks. Got continue your projects on the cheap.
    So find an old hardwood stump and start whittlin’…..

  • #34441
     Balkandom 
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    I do not have pictures, but I have seen something that H&H did in the 40’s or early 50’s. No optics of course, but it was a 375 “Shortie” that a customer had ordered. Pretty trim for the time, barrel was approximately 20 inches, retained the quarter rib and express sights, the stock was not the normal crazy ass heavy that H&H is known for. It weighed about 7 lbs. Stock sling swivel and barrel ring swivel. It was light and comfortable and packed a hella punch for the size. It was my inspiration for the Remington 721 “Pocket elephant rifle” Goodsteel built for me.

  • #34452
     kens 
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    Balkandom;n15459 wrote: I do not have pictures, but I have seen something that H&H did in the 40’s or early 50’s. No optics of course, but it was a 375 “Shortie” that a customer had ordered. Pretty trim for the time, barrel was approximately 20 inches, retained the quarter rib and express sights, the stock was not the normal crazy ass heavy that H&H is known for. It weighed about 7 lbs. Stock sling swivel and barrel ring swivel. It was light and comfortable and packed a hella punch for the size. It was my inspiration for the Remington 721 “Pocket elephant rifle” Goodsteel built for me.

    What you are describing is the same direction I was thinking of doing with this. But I can’t seem to get the whole picture of it assembled inside my mind. Would it look ‘stumpy’ or not ??

  • #34469
     lar45 
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    Here’s my little 35 Whelen on a M98 with 16″ bbl and full length “sporterized stock”
    I traded a Chinese 9mm Tok for it years ago. I wish that who ever built this would have left the stock a little longer.
    With Weaver K4 scope.

  • #34470
     uber7mm 
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    Nice!
    What loads do you use?

  • #34471
     Rattlesnake Charlie 
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    That looks nice.

  • #34478
     kens 
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    that’s the kind of Bubba’izing a mauser that I like,

  • #45062
     ken schott 
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    I am here on the new forum, my username is changed, now I am keneringo,

    I got the little mauser bedded in the stock, cut the stock down, and now actively practicing wood inlays.

    I removed the old military sling swivel, and inlay wood plug to cover the hole. this is my first attempt ever at any sort of inlay.

  • #45066
     uber7mm 
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    Any Photos Ken?

  • #45067
     ken schott 
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    no pic now,

    Im on a job site in south florida, spotty internet, just now got on the new forum, I had to change my name to get on, and get web access. its the original military spanish mauser stock, repaired, chopped, and bubba’d.

    I ordered rear sight today, 3 leaf folding Safari style sight. ir is marked as 100, 200, 300 yards leafs.

    I think for this gun, .35rem, it should be marked 75, 125, 175 yards leafs to be more realistic. it is a 20″ barrel too. not much to look at right now. it is still in the white.

  • #46344
     kens 
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    stock

    here is my first try at inlays. I filled in the former sling bases, with some wood from the cutoff forearm

  • #46346
     kens 
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    here is my first try at overall cold blueing. I was impressed. It is a new Shilen bbl, .35Rem.,
    I draw filed and sanded the bottom metal.

  • #46347
     kens 
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  • #46348
     kens 
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  • #46349
     kens 
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  • #46350
     kens 
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    this is my take on a Woodland Safari rifle.
    20″ #3 barrel, banded front sight, banded barrel swivel, rear ghost ring sight, front brass patridge blade

  • #46351
     kens 
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    what else could I do to dress it up?? add some eye appeal to it??
    my 1st priority is a useful rifle for deer in a tree stand, in thick woods, in grey light of dawn
    what else would make it a better hunting gun??

  • #46366
     kens 
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    updated photos?

  • #46369
     Glenn 
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    Yes some updated photos would be nice.  Maybe a pic of the whole rifle?  I like how your bluing came out.  How much does it weigh?

  • #46375
     Bodean98 
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    Looking pretty good from the photos!

    I love those banded sights and sling swivel studs!

    For eye appeal/dress up maybe slimming of the forearm with a schnable added? A bit of checkering is always attractive as well as adding function. Also adding a simple sling would aid in usefulness. Something lightweight, not too thick or with too many folds or layers to get hung up on “stuff”.

    As far as use in low light conditions, the addition of some sort of red dot sight would work well but I don’t think it would look right mounted on your rifle. The next best would be something like a low power optic or an adjustable aperture or ghost ring. My eyes have gotten to the point that they have a very hard time in low light conditions. I don’t know if yours are to that point but it is a consideration. Now, I need to paint the front sight white or something VERY visible to be able to see the sight in low light. Good old brass just doesn’t work for me any more. (I wondered as I was typing this if NECG offers a tritium insert for these sights?).

    All in all it looks good!

    I like it!

    P.S.    Yes, more pics please. There can never be too much gun porn!

  • #46384
     kens 
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    uber7mm posted asking for pictures back in June.
    I finally posted these above.
    Yes, I am going to mount a ghost ring.
    the stock, I dunno. the more I look at this, and consider all the work involved so far, I ordered a new stock anyway. as it is, I am anxious to go to the range with it.
    But, the metal is looking far better than the wood. they telling me 8 weeks lead time for a stock.
    I guess at 8 weeks wait, plus finishing it out, I will be banging steel with this old military Bubba’d stock.

  • #46785
     kens 
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    Thanks to Tim, I got the rear sight installed.
    After many threads and responses about sights, this is what I have finally settled on, now I hope it zeros in. XS rear ghost ring, ruger front band ramp, NECG ruger patridge blade. shilen #3 barrel, 35rem cal. 20″ barrel. it comes in a lot heavier than expected even with the 20″ barrel, nearly 7lbs. A new Richards stock is awaiting lead time, hunting season is here so the milsurp stock is going to the field this year.

  • #46786
     kens 
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    OK, where is the link to attach pics?? where did iy go?

  • #46789
     kens 
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    overall lines

  • #46790
     kens 
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    it seems to look like a Ruger #1.

     

  • #46791
     kens 
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  • #46792
     kens 
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  • #46793
     kens 
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  • #46794
     kens 
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  • #46795
     kens 
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  • #46803
     kens 
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    the above photos as it went to the initial range shooting.  the NECG front blade was very high, I had to file it down.

    I am really liking the XS rear sight.

  • #46808
     Glenn 
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    Excellent work!  I’m really digging the Ruger Front sight and the XS peep in the rear.

    How does she shoot, or have you had time to work up a load for it?

  • #46809
     kens 
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    • Overall: 565

    It’s not done yet, I’m waiting for the new stock, and needs finished blueing, and some jeweling. I always wanted a jeweled bolt, and this is gonna be it,

    I did take it to the range with remington factory ammo. it says 200gr round nose @ 2050fps. that sight combo printed very low (off the paper) @ 40yds. promising group tho. I had to file a lot off the front height to get it on paper with the rear cranked up high. I’m liking the sight setup, as of right now, if I was to aim center of mass of a deer, he is going down. I’ll hunt with factory ammo this year, and with the milsurp stock. I do like the XS ghost ring, it is all steel, very easy to adjust, very simple, useable sight, small enough, it fits on the rear bridge.

    Now I wish I did not choose the Ruger front base. I chose the Ruger from brownells because it was the cheapest route. But now the gun is printing to the left, the ruger base is not windage adjustable. I got it zeroed on center, but the rear is cranked right, looks off center, but it does print to zero. I may start another thread on these sights.

  • #46812
     Rattlesnake Charlie 
    Participant
    • Gold
    • ★★★
    • Posts: 136
    • Comments: 651
    • Overall: 787

    Looking good. Very practical.

  • #46816
     kens 
    Participant
    • Gold
    • ★★★
    • Posts: 54
    • Comments: 511
    • Overall: 565

    it is finishing out heavier than expected, but, it handles recoil & report quite well. this is 2 attributes I wanted for tree stand work.

  • #46818
     uber7mm 
    Participant
    • Silver
    • ★★
    • Posts: 15
    • Comments: 284
    • Overall: 299

    Very nice execution on your small ring!  Clean and simple.  Probably a joy to carry.

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