This topic contains 15 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  reloader762 1 year, 8 months ago.

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  • #27772
     Larry Gibson 
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    First of all my sincerest apologies to Tomme Boy for taking so long to get this test done. A long time ago he sent me the Accurate Mould he had made for a heavy bullet designed for the 7.62x54R in Mosin Nagants in other milsurp .31 caliber rifles. I cast some up but I seemed like just one thing or another continually put testing them on a back burner. Well I finally got around yesterday to running a complete test with one powder. The 311-215-FN bullet, fully dressed weighed 208 gr cast of #2 alloy and drop right at .315 on the drive bands. I think Tomme Boy had it designed for COWWs (?). However at 208 gr it is a heavy bullet even for 31 caliber. There is no front drive bad as such and the ogive runs from full diameter with a gentle ogive and doesn’t hit .303 until you see where the blue line is. That gives the bullet a very good fit in most .31 milsurp chambers with a long throat. As is the bullet fit perfectly in my Finn M39 so with the ogive against the leade the GC was right at the bottom of the case neck…….an excellently designed heavy bullet for the 7.62x54R, the 7.65 Argentine, the .303 British and probably the 7.7 Jap……especially for hunting with that wide meplat..

    Based on my testing of the 200 gr 314299 in the test M39 rifle and my Ishevsk M91/30 sniper I decided to use regular H4831 powder. As a slow burner it has proven to be an excellent powder for use in these milsurp cartridges with the heavier bullets. I was not surprised at the results and was quite pleased indeed. The Oehler M35P screens were 15′ from the muzzle so another 12 – 15 fps added to the “M” average would be close to the true muzzle velocity. We see that at 1900 fps (37 gr) accuracy begins to go south as that is the probable RPM Threshold for this bullet in a 10″ twist. That is exactly what was expected btw. The test results of 34 – 36 gr show excellent sub 2 moa accuracy. A 3/4 gr Dacron filler was used in loads 34 – 38. The 39 – 41 gr loads had sufficient load density that the filler was not used. I only fired 3 shots of the 41 gr load as the 3rd shot was off the paper so the load was definitely not usable.

    No, Tomme Boy’s 31 bullet did not perform well at HV, it wasn’t expected too. It doesn’t have the design attributes for a HV cast bullet. What it does have the correct attributes for is a hard hitting, bone smashing penetrating bullet that will be deadly on any game animal that walks this continent……..:D with the accurate loads under the RPM Threshold this bullet should be awesome in terminal ballistics to 200 yards. If the ranges are 100 yards or less then loading to 1975+ fps still gives very usable accuracy for hunting. That will definitely hammer any game animal…..:D I probably won’t be hunting with my MNs but I will with my M91 Argentine scout rifle “Evita” in 7.65 Argentine. I manage to cast several hundred more of Tomme’s bullets before I sent the mould back (one of my better moves…….;)) so I will be working up a similar load in Evita.

    An excellent design that Tomme Boy came up with and anyone wanting a heavy hard hitting .31 caliber cast bullet for their 7.62x54R, 7.65 Argie or .303 Brit should take a hard look at it.

    Thanks’ Tomme and again, my apologies for taking so long.

    Larry Gibson

  • #27773
     Smoke4320 
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    very very interesting .. I have become to liking the slower , heaver bullets in cast .. This just might be a purchase for me 🙂

  • #27783
     Reg 
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    Larry, when you do the work up on the 7.65 Arg. would you post your results.
    Thank You

  • #27788
     Larry Gibson 
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    Most definitely will.

    Larry Gibson

  • #27862
     tomme boy 
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    Guys this thing even at 1900 fps has a TON of power. The guys at our range are always shooting at the steel silhouette targets with there black rifles. The targets bounce back maybe 1-2 inches, I can make them almost flip over the top of the hangers shooting it with this bullet. As Larry said. It was not designed for all out speed. It was made so you can plink and take it right out to hunt. I like to run my rifle right around 1900 fps. It is not fast but I know it will kill any deer I shoot at.

    Yes Larry, it was made with ww in mind. I have lots of lino so if I needed a bigger bullet I can use that lead to get it.

  • #31104
     mountain4don 
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    I assume that you are shooting these using H4831 in a longer barrel rifle like 29+ inches? Thats about what my Moisin’s have. My question is that I have an Argentine carbine and wondered if a little faster powder would be suggested with the 314299 mold that I have?

  • #31216
     Larry Gibson 
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    The test rifle, Finn M39, has a 27″ barrel. I used 4831 as I was wanting to push Tomme”s bullet hard. With the shorter MN carbines looking for best accuracy I would fall back on 4895 with a Dacron filler and work into the 1700 – 1900 fps range.

    Larry Gibson

  • #31349
     mountain4don 
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    Larry Gibson;n11251 wrote: The test rifle, Finn M39, has a 27″ barrel. I used 4831 as I was wanting to push Tomme”s bullet hard. With the shorter MN carbines looking for best accuracy I would fall back on 4895 with a Dacron filler and work into the 1700 – 1900 fps range.

    Larry Gibson

    Ok, my normal load for the 314299 is 32.0 grains of IMR-4895 with a 3/4 grain Dacron filler for almost all of my Moisin, Argentine, 7.7 Jap and 303 British rifles. Thanks Larry for reinforcing my experiments on these rifles and cast lead bullets. The grandchildren have killed a lot of deer here on our farm with that load in one of my No. 4 Mk 2 British rifles over the last 20 years.

  • #31991
     tomme boy 
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    I have shot sooooo many 1″ groups with this bullet it gets boring. I made this to run right about 2000 fps and as Larry has shown about that is where it fell apart is right after it.

    I like to let people shoot my 91/30 that say cast bullets and Mosins are junk.They think different after shooting this. I have made some money a few times against guys with modern and surplus rifles with my Mosin. I have a 2.5X pistol scope on the rear sight dovetail.

    The barrel on this rifle is pristine. I took it to a friends and we cleaned it and scoped the throat. It still had reamer marks on both the lands and in the grove. So it was not shot too much. There was NO pitting anywhere all the way down the barrel. And it had a taper to the muzzle like it never seen in a surplus rifle. It was only 0.0007 but it was there. My throat was right at 0.3142″ so I size to 0.314″ It makes the bolt a little hard to close sometimes with certain cases because of thicker brass necks.

    I have 2 loads I use depending on how much powder I have on hand. The main load I use is 18.1gr 2400. The other is 21gr of 5744. Both will shoot 1″ groups for me if I can take my time and my eyes are working right that day. My Diabetes controls my eyes on how I can focus. That is why I need scopes on all of my guns anymore.

  • #31997
     Goodsteel 
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    tomme boy;n12306 wrote:

    The barrel on this rifle is pristine. I took it to a friends and we cleaned it and scoped the throat. It still had reamer marks on both the lands and in the grove. So it was not shot too much. There was NO pitting anywhere all the way down the barrel. And it had a taper to the muzzle like it never seen in a surplus rifle. It was only 0.0007 but it was there. My throat was right at 0.3142″ so I size to 0.314″ It makes the bolt a little hard to close sometimes with certain cases because of thicker brass necks.

    I have never seen a barrel like this on a Mosin. A supremely covetous barrel. Very very nice! Congratulations!!!
    The thing that is most wonderful is that it would up in the hands of someone who could appreciate it instead of a teenager with 2000 rounds of corrosive ammo and not cleaning rod. Good for you!

  • #32051
     tomme boy 
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    Tim I have had about over a hundred of these rifles. I used to have a C&R and would order these 3-5 at a time from Century Arms. Was kind of nice to be able to get these when they were from $59 to $69 for the EXL condition ones delivered. I always tried to do an order to get over the $300 I think at the time, they gave free shipping. I kept the ones that seemed like they would be good shooters and sold off the rest. I have sold off all of my mil. rifles to fund other purchases and to pay bills. This one I am hanging onto no matter what.

    This one looks like heck as it is one of the Wartime receivers. I don’t know what they turned or ground these rec. with but it was CRUDE.

    Tim I also followed a rule I heard on ParallaxBills Forum years ago when all of the Soviet Era guns hit in late 90’s was to look for the wartime guns. Specifically the 91/30’s as they were transitioning into carbines M44, M38, SKS. The 91/30’s were sent to the rear Guard troops that probably never shoot the guns. So they were not left to rust out in the field under actual war time situations. I found this to be somewhat true. More of the 43,44 year rifles had better barrels on them.

    I need to find a few more triggers for these as I have modded a couple already with the pins to make it feel like a 2 stage trigger. Really easy too. I have a bunch of prehard pins of different dia. to make the trigger cam over off the sear. If you do it right, you can get a nice 3.5-4lb 2 stage trigger.

  • #32052
     Goodsteel 
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    Very nice! Sounds like an exciting time.

    Last year sometime, there was a fellow who sent me a 91/30 receiver and a Sako barrel. He wanted me to install the barrel on the rifle as cleanly as possible so that it looked original as he was going to compete with it. The extractor cut didn’t clock correctly, and the chamber was reamed at a horrible angle (probably why he was able to get such a barrel not mounted on a rifle. The chamber was so far out of whack that I doubt consistent primer ignition was possible) but the bore condition looked absolutely perfect.
    I set it back, and reamed the chamber with my floating holder which has this uncanny ability to gently float the chamber back straight again. He emailed me about 6 months later and told me it shot almost MOA with mil-surp ammo.
    The mosin can shoot if it gets a fair shake at it, but barrel quality is king of the small group, and it’s goshdang hard to find that on any WWII battle rifle these days. Pretty cool you managed to cull out an exceptional original!

  • #32055
     tomme boy 
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    Someday when I get back on my feet again I am going to have you build me a rifle. More likely a Savage as they are pretty easy to make to shoot.

  • #32056
     Goodsteel 
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    tomme boy;n12384 wrote: Someday when I get back on my feet again I am going to have you build me a rifle. More likely a Savage as they are pretty easy to make to shoot.

    Use the right barrel and they’re all easy to shoot. 😀
    I recommend Krieger.

  • #34338
     reloader762 
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    Great review on a bullet that I have been looking at for quiet sometime. I wanted a long heavy FN bullet for my long throated 91/30 that I could use as a hunting bullet as 100 yds. or less is pretty common around here.

    I ordered a two cavity version with a minor change to the driving band dia. from Tom at Accurate and received my copy of Tommie’s bullet about a week ago an was able to cast up about 200 bullets over the weekend. With my old batch of COWW’s and a bit of tin WQ’ed my bullets are dropping right at .315″ on the driving bands an weight 216 grs. checked with Gator checks and lubed with 2500+.

    Inserting a bullet into a cut case an slowly chambering it several times to check for consistency in OAL I finally have a bullet that with touch the leads which is about half way down the first driving band right before the crimp groove which leaves a little bit of space looks to be about 1/16″ before reaching the bottom of the case neck.

    In a couple of weeks I’ll be able to get over to my friends house at our little range and shoot some test loads over the chrono an report back on how they do. I plan on PC’ing a few as well to throw in the mix.

     

  • #49271
     reloader762 
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    Still developing a good load for my 1933 HEX Tula Mosin 91/30, I’m shooting a 215 gr. .314″ gas check bullet lubed with LARS 2500+ I had Tom over at Accurate Molds cut it a little larger for me. I had two ladder test loads five rds. each with 33.0 and 34.0 grs. of H-4895. The 33.0 gr. load shot really well but the 34.0 gr. loads was excellent and I still have room to go, next outing I will load up some 35 & 36 gr. loads as well as some PC’ed version of the same loads and see how they compare. Once I settle on a load with good velocity and accuracy to match I put the loads through the chrono. The 34.0 gr. load is definitely a keeper.

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