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    • #23308
      timspawn
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      Tim,
      What are your thoughts on building a long action rifle chambered in a short action caliber? Does it cause any feeding issues?

    • #23309
      goody
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      I have a few and never had any real issues to make me say I would never do it again. My 308 in a long action allows for alot of powder in case with real long boolits.

    • #23311
      Goodsteel
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      No, it does not, as long as you are talking about NATO derivatives.
      I have built many LA rifles on 308 based cartridges. What Goody says is true, but the limiting factor is not the magazine copacity, but the throat of the rifle. You can seat a bullet out as long as you want, but if it runs into the throat before the bolt closes, you’re SOL.

      One of my favorite bolt action rifles is based on a LA Sako AV that was originally a 270 Winchester. I rebarreled it to 358 Winchester and thus was born Siete Leguas (means “Seven Leagues” and was the name of Pancho Villa’s favorite horse. A magnificent animal by all accounts).
      It runs beautifully.

      Another that I built and posted here on the forum was the Genesis rifle (the one with the scrolling checkering patterns and pearl inlay work in my thread “I scratched an expensive stock”)
      That rifle was also chambered in 358 Winchester and was built from a Remington 700 LA.

    • #23313
      Anonymous
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      Got a 308 win in a Tikka TK3. It is long throated. Changed out the bolt stop and use 06 magazines. Works well with very long seating.

    • #23314
      timspawn
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      It would be a NATO derivative. I have a 700 in 30-06 I’ve set back for a build.

    • #23325
      seaboltm
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      seems like the M24 has variants built on long actions and chambered in 7.62 NATO. If its good enough for Army snipers

    • #23338
      Artful
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      I have a post-64 Winchester Model 70 that is a long action – they built them all on long actions – it was originally in .30’06 and I have made it a swap barrel – you can get other magazine’s for the action so that it will even work with 223 and the like – but I’m using the original .30’06 magazine and have barrels in short cartridges like 22-250, 243, 308 and am looking into a .35 barrel for either 358 WCF or 35 Whelen.

      NO Feeding issues to this point.

    • #23349
      Goodsteel
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      The feeding of a bolt action has to do with the column stack of the cartridges, and what angle that presents the cartridges to the feed lips at, along with the profile of the follower. Most all Mauser’s, 700s, 70s, and modern actions are set up for the NATO cartridges specifically, or are set up to feed singly (cartridge approaches the ramp dead center).
      The most perfect feeding situation was created by the original Mauser 98 and all the angles were set up to allow 5 cartridges to sit in the box perfectly.
      Modern rifles typically lose one round to allow a larger box, and the follower is manipulated to make reliable feeding a reality.
      The only time you get into trouble is when you have a box that is crushed, or was designed for a totally different cartridge so that the column stack is messed with, however, that can be overcome with a change in the follower shape.

      For instance, I have always liked the Arisaka jap rifles. They are strong and reliable, and very nicely made, and often can be had cheap, but the first one I built on was plagued with feeding issues. I thought the problem resided with the feed rails so I worked on them (this was my own rifle BTW, and I had very little in it, so I was willing to use it as a learning experience). Manipulating the feed rails and ramp did absolutely NOTHING to help the feeding. I had fun with that rifle, but when I got the chance to get another one, I shelved the first and rebuilt on the new one. The same feeding issues were there, but this time, I knew the problem was located below the rails. I was all set to modify the magazine box, when I had the idea to try a different follower. I happened to have one here that belonged to a Yugo M48, so I put it in the rifle. All the feeding issues vanished.

      Another time, I had a guy approach me with a custom Mauser that would not feed 30-06. I saw that the rails had not been tampered with, so I removed the bottom metal to inspect things closer and found that the magazine box had been crushed slightly. I opened it back up by carefully prying on it, reinstalled it in the rifle, and Presto!!! Feeding issues were gone.

      That’s just a couple of illustrations that show what is needed for reliable feeding. The reason so many of these cartridges will work in rifles not originally designed for them is that the angle of the column stack actually changes very little across the spectrum.

    • #23402
      Anonymous
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      One action in particular that I have has feeding problems and I’ve thought from the beginning that it was the rails. It’s a Yugo 48 Mauser, originally 8mm, that I rebarreled and chambered in 6.5×55 Swedish Mauser. Sometimes the round jumps ahead of the extractor instead of slipping up under it. This usually results in having to drop a brass rod down the barrel to dislodge the round. I’ve tried the same cartridges in other actions and have not been able to get a failed feed. If I raise the muzzle it almost always feeds under the extractor but if the muzzle is below horizontal the cartridge pretty much always jumps ahead of the extractor.

      I’ve thought about gluing some thin shim strips to the bottom of the rails as a test to see if it would delay the escape of the head of the cartridge until it has to be captured by the extractor. The brass is US made Winchester and Remington that has the same head and rim as the 8mm/.308 instead of the larger standard 6.5×55 head. Any thoughts?

      David

    • #23431
      Anonymous
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      Re Goodsteel’s comment on the magazine box: I made one in a 358 Win on a short 700 action. It was a feeding nightmare until I noticed the difference in the shape of the stamped-steel box with respect to a reliably feeding one on a 22/250. A bit of box reshaping and it fed both round-nose and pointed just fine. I’m sure glad I didn’t mess with the feeding ramps in the action.

    • #23449
      Goodsteel
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      David2011;n1404 wrote: One action in particular that I have has feeding problems and I’ve thought from the beginning that it was the rails. It’s a Yugo 48 Mauser, originally 8mm, that I rebarreled and chambered in 6.5×55 Swedish Mauser. Sometimes the round jumps ahead of the extractor instead of slipping up under it. This usually results in having to drop a brass rod down the barrel to dislodge the round. I’ve tried the same cartridges in other actions and have not been able to get a failed feed. If I raise the muzzle it almost always feeds under the extractor but if the muzzle is below horizontal the cartridge pretty much always jumps ahead of the extractor.

      I’ve thought about gluing some thin shim strips to the bottom of the rails as a test to see if it would delay the escape of the head of the cartridge until it has to be captured by the extractor. The brass is US made Winchester and Remington that has the same head and rim as the 8mm/.308 instead of the larger standard 6.5×55 head. Any thoughts?

      David

      Try a new follower (modify one from a 98 Mauser (wink))
      Try a new follower spring.
      Try opening the box walls slightly to give the rails more purchase on the cartridges and keep the nose down a little longer.
      Until all of the above is tried, I do not think the rails have anything to do with it. Sure you might be able to correct this by modifying the rails, but that’s not the place to focus your attention, because in attempting to do so, many an action has been ruined.
      It’s true that you want the round to stay under the rails longer. No argument. But attacking the rails because they are easy to see and visualize is not the answer. You have to know the right place to tweak it whether you can see it or not.
      Trust me: you can fix this with the box and follower, and if you jack those up, you can easily repair/replace them.

    • #23450
      Goodsteel
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      Bravo! That’s the correct way to handle this.

    • #23473
      Anonymous
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      I’ll try that. It does make sense and I can visualize the effect.

      Thanks,
      David

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