- April 6, 2016 at 10:28 pm #26838redriverhunterParticipant
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I know I might be late but I just saw that Henry makes a 45/70 in stainless with an 18.5 inch barrel. I am wanting one and have a few question about the 45/70.
1 what do you think the muzzle blast would be like with a full power load. 2. with short barrel what do you think would be the max effective range for deer and and hog. 3. is there anything else I should take into consideration. thanks in advance
- April 6, 2016 at 11:04 pm #26840chutesnreloadsParticipant
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Don’t expect muzzle blast to be much of an issue.I’d say effective range will have mostly to do with how well you judge distance to target.Other consideration…..”full power load”….hope you like recoil
- April 6, 2016 at 11:22 pm #26842VANNParticipant
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chutesnreloads;n5529 wrote: Don’t expect muzzle blast to be much of an issue.I’d say effective range will have mostly to do with how well you judge distance to target.Other consideration….."full power load"….hope you like recoil
Like he said, I hope you like recoil. A #2 load loaded to the max is a handful. Offhand isn’t to bad but off a bench it’ll make most people flinch.
- April 6, 2016 at 11:27 pm #26843GRUMPAParticipant
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Right now I’m working on mine in the way of recoil. In my Lyman book I used the starting load of 45.5 of 3031 and got a chronied speed of 1470FPS. Felt recoil was a bit hefty but I can handle a bit more. Before that I tried 1 load of 3031 but with 36gr and recoil was minimal, and those 2 loads are with the LEE 405HB and PC’d boolits.
I haven’t even done accuracy testing yet but I was using a known target at 220yds and whacked it all 6 times. That was with a bollit .001 over groove diameter but right now I’m waiting on my NOE order I made back on the 23rd to arrive with a sizer bushing so I can go .002 over groove diameter.
As far as muzzle blast is concerned, during the day when I tested the few loads I used I really didn’t notice any. Not to say there isn’t I just didn’t notice any.
- April 7, 2016 at 7:24 pm #26863seaboltmParticipant
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I agree muzzle blast shouldn’t be an issue. Using H4895 I took the Lee 405 grain bullet to 1823 fps. Recoil was, ahum, brisk to say the least. My standard load is the same powder to about 1500 fps, which, with a slip on recoil pad is OK. Range depends. Open sights, maybe 150 yards, depending on your vision and ability. With a scope, you get trajectory limited, but not killing ability limited. I would think a scoped 45-70 would be more than capable of a 200 to 300 yard kill. Beyond that, it will still kill, but the trajectory would be hard to manage.
- April 8, 2016 at 10:33 pm #26876ArtfulParticipant
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Have a marlin – can attest that heavier rifle is better – Now have a Ruger #3 in 375 winchester the 45-70 was a little too much in such a light carbine.
I’d start out with Trapdoor / Factory level loads – then work your way up to stronger action second level loads. Remember a lighter boolit thumps you less.
- April 9, 2016 at 7:15 am #26883badbob454Participant
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i feel differently than Artful on felt recoil , (sorry Artful ) i found the heavy’s traveling slower say 405 grains has a hard push where the faster lighter 300 gr bullets has a quick hard hit. just my feelings of course if both loads to the same velocity should be the lighter bullet has the easiest recoil …with this i agree with Artfull … but that is counterproductive as the lighter bullet needs more velocity to match the terminal power of the heavy slower bullets . but either will bruise your shooting shoulder after a few boxes of med to full power loads , im 6’2” and 210 lbs and a full power load can be a handful …
- August 9, 2016 at 3:26 pm #29338WCMParticipant
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I started shooting and hunting with the .45/70 in ’72 when Marlin came back out with the Model 95.
Over the years it became my go to gun for hunting Whitetail deer.I have taken many large bucks with the rifle.
I currently own eight different rifles chamber in .45/70 including two Marlin Guide guns.
I bought a blue one when they first came out.It is ported. I also have a stainless .
A good bit of my casting experience with rifles over the years has been for the .45/70
I recently bought this Accurate mold for my various lever guns.
I like the weight and the two grease grooves.
I have also had good luck with the accuracy of the Saeco Mold #017
With a load of Rel 7 powder it is hard to beat for 100 yd target shooting.
I have settled on 350 to 365 weight bullets in the lever guns as well as my Ruger #1
The recoil is somewhat less than the 400’s and of course it takes less lead to make the bullet.
It is also very adequate for hunting within it’s range limitations.
- August 9, 2016 at 5:24 pm #29345GoodsteelKeymaster
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The 45-70:A modern reloaders conundrum.
It exists because there’s simply nothing that compares, or can deliver what it does.
The 444 would have been such an excellent idea. Unfortunately, in an all too common stroke of unbridled genius, the designers threw it under the bus by hamstringing it with too slow a twist to be a versatile long range cartridge like the 45-70 and as a consequence it’s popularity is fizzling.
Not one to to be daunted by failure and completely willing to substitute one giant mistake for another, Marlin tried again with the 450 Marlin. Aha!!! The twist rate was correct! The case capacity was more balanced! It was a belted case!!!……..Oh yeah. About that belt: different than any other belt on the planet and different in a way that prevented people from simply reaming out the chamber so other common belted cases could be used instead of Marlins proprietary design. Gomer Pile on Valium couldn’t have done any worse.
Thus, the nearly century and a half old 45-70 holds its place in the lineup of cartridges as the only viable cartridge in it’s genre’ and capability level.
Certainly, my own experiance lends no other cartridge as a contestant. Shooting steel plates at 100 yards on my property shows the true power of this vintage cartridge in stark contrast to some other common hunting calibers. For instance, the 30-06, 270, 30-30, and 308 simply slap the plates and knock them hard till their backwards flight is arrested by the chains that restrict them, so they come bouncing and twitching back into place for another shot. On the other hand, a hit from the 1886 pushing a soft lead bullet at only 1200FPS trasfers so much energy into the plates that they wrap themselves around the vertical beam of the A frame that holds them like a runaway window blind till they use up their chains and come to a sudden stop pinned to the beam like a fly that was swatted with a hammer.
However, it is not without it’s problems. It has roughly 50% more case capacity than it can use if you wish to run it somewhere between the elephant loads commonly available on the shelf at Walmart (350 grain bullets cooking off at 2000FPS are common) and the original BP loads from the days of yor which spat the legendary 405grain bullet out at a blistering speed of 1200 FPS.
Between these two extremes lies the place many would feel comfortable setting up shop for mid range precision shots on paper and game. Unfortunately This is a sort of “no mans land” where finding decent accuracy is a very difficult thing to do without resorting to advanced or even “questionable” loading techniques. There simply is no plug and play option.
It is my hunch that the demise of SR4759 took with it the most viable and easily attained accuracy combination with this cartridge in the 1400-1600FPS range, which leaves me searching for a suitable propellant that may not exist.
I have designed a bullet for my rifle that seems to give me the balance I desire in a projectile. Unfortunately, without the right powder to drive it, it seems akin to putting the perfect tires on a car I wish I had an engine for.
The search continues, but I don’t fret too much about it. In my world where so many firearm problems are easily solved, I enjoy having one illusive white stag.
- August 9, 2016 at 6:10 pm #29346WCMParticipant
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I have molds between 300 gr and 540 grs for my various .45/70’s
For the lever guns I like Rel 7 best. I can shoot a 350 gr bullet around 1600fps without any problem with recoil.
The 405 gr bullets generate a good bit of recoil once you leave the 1200 fps range.
I like the moderate loads for hunting.
The 405 gr bullets just shoot straight through a deer,and unless you break both shoulders, they usually run about 100yds.
I have not tried my new 365 gr bullet on deer, but it has a large meplat so I expect it will be a good one.
I don’t care much for the 300 gr bullets for accuracy or hunting.
I like the older traditional cartridges.I am not much on the latest and greatest.
As far as hunting, I can do about everything I will ever get a chance to do with the .270 win, 30/06, .45/70 and the .405 win.
- August 9, 2016 at 6:14 pm #29347Rattlesnake CharlieParticipant
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I have an 1895 Marlin Cowboy and a Shiloh Sharps. I load loafing speed rounds with 10 gr of Red Dot. I load my hunting and long range loads to the top end of Trap Door levels. I tried some mid-range Marlin loads. They were not fun. I pulled the remainder of them. I took my deer (about 220 lb whitetail buck) last December with a single shot from the Sharps. Like Goodsteel says, it really makes the steel gongs move. Both of my rifles seem to shoot almost anything good. Muzzle blast is not bad since it is a low pressure round.
- August 10, 2016 at 5:22 am #29356ScharfschuetzeParticipant
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Trapdoor loads are my standard load with my 24″ Model 1895 Marlin. If I lived in Alaska I’d probably work out something heavier, but I don’t, so I just keep it fun duplicating the original 45/70 loads. I will say that those 405 grain bullets out of my various Trapdoors will hold quite well out past 900 yards on steel or targets of opportunity. The Lyman aperture sight on the Marlin only has enough elevation for a little over 300 yards, but it shoots the Trapdoor loads quite well at that range.
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