This topic contains 44 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Sgt. Mike 3 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #28464
     Doc Highwall 
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    Yesterday I shot another small-bore prone match like I do every Tuesday evening. I have been shooting with two guys informal at their range with 22’s and I offered them a chance to shoot at one of our matches, hoping they would shoot in F-class off the bench to start. I told them they could use either my Remington 40X or my Winchester 52C and I would fix them up with a good scope and sand bags or rest. Well yesterday only Steve came and he shot my Remington 40X that has the barrel cut to 18.5″ and threaded 1/2-28 and is mounted in a HS Precision stock. The scope is a Leupold 8.5x25x50mm with a 1/8″ and fine cross-hairs and target knobs. I had done torque tests previous with this gun and stock, setting it to preform the best using Norma TAC-22 ammo.

    Yesterday Steve shot off the bench using sand bags filled with poly beads under the for-end, and a rear sand bag by Protector. I also set him up with a extra windmill that I have on his bench. Previously I trained him and Gary about proper trigger control and follow through, with some insight on wind reading. Yesterday I showed Steve where to look for wind movement both with his eyes and through the scope like the berm behind his target. I stayed with him while he was shooting at the sighter target and left after his second record shot to shoot my own target prone.

    After I had finished shooting and was getting up, Steve was sitting on the stool behind my shooting point as he had already finished shooting. I asked him how he did and he said he dropped 1 point. After his target was scored he ended up with a 399-30X count, not bad for a first match.

    Here is a picture of his target, the center bull is the sighter and the 4 on the outside are record targets.

  • #28466
     Scharfschuetze 
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    Good on you Doc.

  • #28468
     chutesnreloads 
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    Way to go coach

  • #28470
     Larry Gibson 
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    Just love to see this happen, well done Doc.

    Larry Gibson

  • #28472
     Doc Highwall 
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    I talked to Steve a little while ago about shooting this weekend and he wants to go. I told him he ended up in 5th place with his 399-30X count.

  • #28476
     Phil 
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    Nice target. Sounds like he may be hooked.

    Curious — what was the distance and size of the 10 ring?

  • #28477
     skeettx 
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    Well done, well done, another one enters the fold 🙂

  • #28478
     Doc Highwall 
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    Phil, the 100 yard small-bore target has a 2″ ten ring, and a 1″ X-ring. All the dimensions are the same as a official 100 yard small-bore target, just the colors have been reversed for scope shooting in the evening. We have people 88 years old shooting at this target and it allows you to see your bullet holes a lot easier. The target has the 8,9,10, and X-rings on all 5 targets.

    This target was shot at 100 yards distance.

  • #28489
     Phil 
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    Doc Highwall;n7610 wrote: Phil, the 100 yard small-bore target has a 2″ ten ring, and a 1″ X-ring. All the dimensions are the same as a official 100 yard small-bore target, just the colors have been reversed for scope shooting in the evening. We have people 88 years old shooting at this target and it allows you to see your bullet holes a lot easier. The target has the 8,9,10, and X-rings on all 5 targets.

    This target was shot at 100 yards distance.

    Thanks for the info.

  • #28521
     Doc Highwall 
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    I shot iron sights with my Anschutz for the first time in 15 years Tuesday while waiting for Steve to show up for the match. I had a 6.5X-20X50mm Leupold that was boosted to 14.5X-35X and I had matched as best as I could, the front sight height to match the center line of the scope in relation to the center line of the bore. I worked great but now I am trying to eliminate as much movement while in the prone position. Because the Leupold was a side focus I was unable to rotate it 90 degrees counter clockwise to make windage adjustments, and always had to reach over with my left hand, I should have mention I shoot left hand due to being blind in my right eye.

    The scope I have mounted now is a Weaver T-36 and by rotating it 90 degrees counter clockwise, then switching the windage and elevation knobs I now have a windage knob on the left side, even if the numbers are upside down works great. Because the Weaver T-36 is a 40mm scope vs. 50mm on the Leupold I was able to lower the scope, and I also lowered the iron sights to match the center line of the scope using sight blocks.

    For the rear sight to attach to my Anschutz I used a dovetail to Weaver adapter and attached a Lipski rear sight base to the adapter and then mounted my Warner rear sight to that, and I was able to shoot at both 50 yards and 100 yard and still have enough elevation to shoot past 200 yards. For those who are not familiar with the Lipski rear sight mount here is a link.

    http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/sight-parts/rear-sight-bases/competition-rear-sight-base-prod7917.aspx

    Here is a target I shot today at 100 yards using the new Federal 711B that does not shot as well as the old 711B that has the dimple in the base. I will shoot some better ammo after I work few minor details out after not shooting Iron sight in 15 years.

    In one picture you can see the 19.6″ barrel and the two bloop tubes I use, the short one is for scope and the long one is for iron sights.

  • #28524
     Phil 
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    Doc,

    The Federal 711B does not work well for me either. My Win 1885 likes the Federal 922A while my Savage Mark II prefers CCI std vel of all things, The Savage also likes Wolf Match but the CCI is much cheaper and works as well if not better. I have been working on the Savage and it has come along nicely. I’ll post some pics in a day or so. Out of boredom I recently measured bullet diameters and concentricity of various species of 22RF — see below. I used a very accurate micrometer. I found it interesting and perhaps telling of the Savage’s preference for the CCI that the CCI diameter is significantly larger than the others.

    Ammosample 1 minsample 1 maxsample 2 minsample 2 maxsample 3 minsample 3 maxsample 4 minsample 4 maxsample 5 minsample 5 maxAvg minAvg maxAvg diaAvg concentricity
    Federal auto match0.22260.22290.22240.22280.22280.22300.22230.22250.22290.22310.22260.22290.22270.0003
    Federal target0.22310.22370.22290.22330.22330.22380.22290.22350.22290.22340.22300.22350.22330.0005
    Federal match0.22340.22360.22290.22340.22320.22380.22300.22360.22320.22380.22310.22360.22340.0005
    Federal match HV0.22150.22200.22210.22320.22150.22220.22140.22180.22050.22100.22140.22200.22170.0006
    Aguila Rifle match0.22200.22220.22310.22400.22200.22300.22210.22390.22180.22200.22220.22300.22260.0008
    Wolf match target0.22290.22300.22290.22300.22250.22260.22240.22260.22260.22280.22270.22280.22270.0001
    CCI std vel0.22420.22460.22360.22400.22410.22470.22410.22480.22440.22490.22410.22460.22430.0005
  • #28525
     Doc Highwall 
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    Phil, have you tried the Norma TAC-22 it works very well in a lot of 22’s. If you look at Steve’s target that is what he shot, it is capable of holding better then the X-ring.

    I still have a case of the old 711B with the dimple and it shoots great. I have shot a lot of 400’s out of 400 using it at 100 yards. My real match ammo is the Federal UM1B that I still have just over a case of. I am keeping it for big matches, until then I am using the Norma TAC-22 for practice and Norma Match for matches.

    I also have Wolf Match Target and Match Extra and some SK that shoots good. Just trying to be conservative of the good stuff.

    Back in 2000 – 2001 I had a 400 average and the person that I shoot with said ” Welcome to the ammo chase” Greg still holds a national record set in 1975 and his farther was on the 1948 Olympic small-bore team. Nothing like shooting with people that really know how to shoot and are willing to share their knowledge.

    Welcome to the ammo chase!!!

  • #28530
     Phil 
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    Doc,
    I have been meaning to try the TAC-22. Brownells now has it in stock “on sale” for $52.49 a brick. I snagged three.

  • #28532
     Phil 
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    Below is a target shot with my Savage MK II 22LR. Particulars are written on the target. I have done work on the trigger and stock. Trigger is now a nice, clean 1.75# break. I recently changed out the scope from a crap Simmons to an ancient Leupold 6.5-20x. This target was with the Leupold. This was shot off a bipod and rear bag while testing different ammo.

  • #28533
     Doc Highwall 
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    Phil, here is a picture of some of my low walls, the top two are chambered in 357 mag. and the bottom two are chambered in 22 Lr.

  • #28534
     Doc Highwall 
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    Phil, what is you method you use when testing different brands of 22 ammo? Do you actually clean the barrel between brands, then fire a few fouling shots? Or do you just fire enough rounds to condition the bore then shoot for group?

    The iron sight target I posted was 20 shots which is what a target should have for a match.

  • #28535
     Phil 
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    Doc,
    The bottom one looks like the sister to my Win (Miroku). Mine is the model with gold engraving. Hard to tell from your picture but I suspect yours is as well. I also have a Browning 1885 in 45-70 while my wife has a Win 1885 in 38-55 that she has won 100 yard matches with.

    I have successfully campaigned my Browning 45-70 and Win 22LR in 100 yard matches as well as more recent 50′ offhand matches with the 22LR.

  • #28536
     Doc Highwall 
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    Phil, the two in the picture are the plain sided ones, but I do have one of the gold engraved ones as well. I even have a lowwall chambered in .260 Remington. I have highwalls in 30-30, 38-55, 40-65, 45-70, and 45-90

  • #28537
     Phil 
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    Doc Highwall;n7684 wrote: Phil, what is you method you use when testing different brands of 22 ammo? Do you actually clean the barrel between brands, then fire a few fouling shots? Or do you just fire enough rounds to condition the bore then shoot for group?

    The iron sight target I posted was 20 shots which is what a target should have for a match.

    Ammo test method — On the occasion of the posted Savage target between ammo species I ran a lightly oiled patch followed by a dry patch. Then I put 5 rounds of the next ammo into the berm followed by 5 or 10 rounds of that ammo on target.

    My Win 1885 seems to need more rounds, 10 or 20, to get settled down after ammo change and/or a light cleaning. I never rigorously clean my 22LR bores.

  • #28539
     Doc Highwall 
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    I first like to start off with a ammo that I know that has demonstrated good grouping abilities. I then do a torque test with the bedding screws usually at 100 yards starting at 10 inch lbs., and work in 5 inch lbs increments up to about 40 inch lbs MAX. with a wood stock. Somewhere in there the gun will shoot it’s smallest group, then I try to refine the torque setting say it shot it’s smallest groups between 20 – 25 inch lbs. I will repeat the test at 200 yards using the 20 and 25 inch lbs . setting looking to reduce vertical spread.

    Now that I have found the best torque for that gun and ammo combination, I find that it usually works very will for other ammo brands within the same velocity range,
    the same thing goes for my barrel turner,

  • #28582
     Doc Highwall 
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    Yesterday I shot again and Steve came for his second match, and Gary showed up as well. Long story short they both shot my Remington 40X chambered in 22Lr. topped with a Leupold VX-III 8.5x25x50mm with target knobs and shot the Norma TAC-22 ammo again off sandbags.

    Last week Steve shot a 399-30X and came in 5th place in F class, and yesterday he shot a 400-30X and came in 4th place. After Steve shot Gary shot at the target next to Steve’s, and for his first match Gary shot a 398-27X and placed 16th in F class.

    I shot prone and ended up with a 400-30X for second place.

  • #28585
     Phil 
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    Doc Highwall;n7743 wrote: Yesterday I shot again and Steve came for his second match, and Gary showed up as well. Long story short they both shot my Remington 40X chambered in 22Lr. topped with a Leupold VX-III 8.5x25x50mm with target knobs and shot the Norma TAC-22 ammo again off sandbags.

    Last week Steve shot a 399-30X and came in 5th place in F class, and yesterday he shot a 400-30X and came in 4th place. After Steve shot Gary shot at the target next to Steve’s, and for his first match Gary shot a 398-27X and placed 16th in F class.

    I shot prone and ended up with a 400-30X for second place.

    Sounds like fun for all.

    I am participating in a 100 yd off-hand match tomorrow. I’ll be campaigning my wife’s Win 1885 in 38-55. I am not too competitive against most of the shooters as I am shaky off-hand in my ancient years — still fun though.

  • #28620
     Phil 
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    Phil;n7677 wrote: Doc,
    I have been meaning to try the TAC-22. Brownells now has it in stock “on sale” for $52.49 a brick. I snagged three.

    Doc,

    I tried the TAC-22 today at 100 yds in my Savage. The CCI std vel shot a bit better today in my Savage MK II. Ten shot group with the TAC-22 was .85″ for 9 rounds with the 10th out about .6″ from the edge of that group. The CCI was 10 hits in a tad less than .7″. The flyer with the TAC-22 may have been me. I was a bit pressed for time today and will do more testing another day. Today was shot off a bipod. I tend to do a bit better off a front bag but failed to bring it alone today.

  • #28621
     Doc Highwall 
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    The TAC-22 shoots real good for the money.

  • #28622
     Doc Highwall 
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    Forgot to ask, how did you do in the off-hand match the other day.

    I took Gary shooting today and I fixed him up with my Winchester 52C with a Redfield 3200 scope that is 24 power. I had him work on keeping his cheek on the stock, while loading and firing to minimize movement off the bench. Today he did good after about 2 hours, before that he looked like a fish flopping around on the deck of the boat trying to get off a hook.

    Tomorrow he is coming to the match to shoot again, it is suppose to be 13+ mph winds with a possibility of a thunder storm. That will be fun watching the windmill do 360’s looking for a predominate wind direction, and wind speed.

  • #28623
     Phil 
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    Doc Highwall;n7801 wrote: Forgot to ask, how did you do in the off-hand match the other day.

    I took Gary shooting today and I fixed him up with my Winchester 52C with a Redfield 3200 scope that is 24 power. I had him work on keeping his cheek on the stock, while loading and firing to minimize movement off the bench. Today he did good after about 2 hours, before that he looked like a fish flopping around on the deck of the boat trying to get off a hook.

    Tomorrow he is coming to the match to shoot again, it is suppose to be 13+ mph winds with a possibility of a thunder storm. That will be fun watching the windmill do 360’s looking for a predominate wind direction, and wind speed.

    Coincidental that you mention your Winchester 52 as that is what my buddy was shooting today. His is a sporter model in near perfect condition. It was doing very well with the cheap Federal AutoMatch bulk ammo.

    Off-hand match the other day — not too good but better than the last time! I have not shot off-hand much but do wish to improve.

  • #28628
     Doc Highwall 
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    Steve called me about and hour ago asking if everything was all set for tomorrow and I told him it was, I guess you can say he is hooked.

  • #28644
     Doc Highwall 
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    Today was match day again and Steve and Gary showed up. When they got there I already had the Remington 40X set up for Steve, and the Winchester 52C set up for Gary. The Norma TAC-22 shoots real good in the Remington 40X, but it was never shot in the Winchester 52C until today’s match. Today Steve shot a 100-6X, 100-8X, 100-8X, and a 100-9X for a score of 400-31X, and Gary shot a 100-9X, 100-6X, 100-8X, and a 100-8X for a score of 400-31X and then was creedmored by Steve shooting a 9X bull vs a 8X bull on the last target.

    Me from all the setting up and things, well lets just say I sucked shooting prone, I ended up with a 395-24X shooting my worst match this season so far. Steve and Gary made me happy that they are doing good shooting in F-class off the bench. So far Steve has shot a 399-30X, 400-30X, and a 400-31X, and Gary has shot a 398-27X and a 400-31X.

  • #28648
     Phil 
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    That is very good for the new shooters. The targets are effectively the 100 yard small bore, correct? For grins I’ll try my Savage on that target the next time at the range with a front bag. I’ll post the results (if they are good!).

  • #28650
     Doc Highwall 
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    Phil, the targets are the exact same size as the official 100 yard small-bore target, the colors are just reversed so you can see your bullet holes better later in the evening. Tuesday the match started at 6:30-6:45 PM.

    Today Gary and I went looking for a rifle for him to buy, as he wanted to use his own rifle, so that he would not have to borrow mine. I found a nice Anschutz 54 that was in great shape for $725.00 and he bought it, and it came with sights, bi-pod, sling, and a case. I am going to order a Anschutz 9″ sight rail for him to mount a scope on it. I am going to suggest he look at a Weaver T-36 scope which is the scope that I have mounted on my Anschutz when I am not using iron sights. In the mean time I am going to mount my 2″ Unertl 20X scope on it for him to shoot. Friday we are going to get together and do a torque test with the bedding screws using the Norma TAC-22 ammo for the tests shooting at 100 yards.

    The match winning score Tuesday prone shooting was a 400-37X , and in F-class the winning score was a 400-37X, and second place also shot a 400-37X. I know that Gary and Steve will have a challenge shooting against those guys, I already told them if they want to win, they better pay attention to wind reading, and shoot in the wind to learn.

  • #28678
     Goodsteel 
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    Well done Doc!!!

  • #28694
     Doc Highwall 
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    Thanks Tim!!!

    Sorry to hear about your foot, take care of it.

  • #29080
     Doc Highwall 
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    After the match where both Gary and Steve shot the 400-31X Gary said I want to buy my own gun so the next day we went looking and at The Blue Trail Range I found a Anschutz 54 that was made in 1968 for $725 and came with the better grade of iron sights, sling, and bi-pod in a case. Well I have been working with Gary showing him how to do a torque test and what to look for when shooting off the rest, as to how the gun comes back, and to look for vertical stringing on the target. Well long story short after doing a bunch of tests, Gary shot a 400-35X match Tuesday winning the match.

  • #29081
     Doc Highwall 
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    Steve also wanted a rifle for himself and I found a new never shot Kimber 82G still in the shipping container for $650 with the sights. He ordered a scope rail from Champions Choice and a Weaver T-36 scope from Natchez that was on sale for $379.99 and we are going to mount it this week and start doing torque tests. Steve shot his worst score Tuesday with my Remington 40X a .398-25X shooting Norma TAC-22 the same as Gary.

  • #29137
     Sgt. Mike 
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    The 54 is no slouch, although some prefer the64. The 54 is a great choice all the way around.
    I have one of these in UIT format in the Gun safe and pull her out when I need to cover the basics.
    Mine seems to prefer Fold Medal match ( need to look at the exact number on the box as there is actually two gold medal match offerings) and Wolf match

    Kimber 82G I still wish I had ordered some from CMP a while back.. and everyone loves the 40X

    Forgot to add Great job on getting them interested in shooting and competition Doc…:D:D

  • #29158
     Doc Highwall 
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    Thanks Mike! The 54 action is their best action and now they have an improved version called the 54.30

    http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/index.php5?menu=325&sprache=1&newsID=970&newsAlle=0

  • #29165
     Sgt. Mike 
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    Yes it is Doc, the 64 usually gets preferred because of a lower cost for entry level.
    Sorry for digress of comparing the actions against each others. But the act of getting them into the sports is just outstanding even if it had been with a ruger 10/22 or a Springfield 22.
    No matter how you slice it smallbore is just fun and extremely challenging

  • #29175
     Doc Highwall 
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    I say it is challenging, I shot a 399-23X and ended up in 14th place. Gary shot a 399-29X in “F” class and ended up in 12th place, and Steve shot a 399-27X and ended up in 14th place.

    The winner of last nights match shooting prone with a scope shot a 400-37X, and the high iron sight shooter shot a 400-29X, and the top “F” class shooters both shot a 400-40X.

    This is what is meant by welcome to the ammo chase, even with the best equipment and the best shooter, you still need to find a ammo that REALLY SHOOTS in your gun. This is why I stress about doing a torque test with your gun with the ammo that you will shoot.

  • #29184
     Sgt. Mike 
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    Doc you use barrel tuners?
    certain combos they say are god sends

    No experience with them on my end

  • #29186
     Doc Highwall 
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    Mike, I will not shoot a 22Lr for competition that I have not first done a torque test with the bedding screws first, and then do a test using a barrel tuner.

  • #29188
     Doc Highwall 
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    Here is a picture of my Anschutz 2013 with the short bloop tube and tuner. I also have a longer bloop tube I use for shooting iron sights that has a tuner weight. I even mounted a tuning weight to my old 52C Winchester.

  • #29963
     Bullseye67 
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    Good evening all, I have been following this with great interest. So much so that I pulled out my M52 and plunked a couple (50) of rounds down range. Mine is set up with rear aperture and globe front site. I used to shoot off hand 50 yard matches when I was younger…OK…30+years ago. I would never have pulled it out of the safe if it wasn’t for reading this post and remembering the joys of shooting a bolt action rifle without a scope. Might make it a regular part of my range days.

  • #30290
     Doc Highwall 
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    The summer league has ended and the final match results are in. The league has 18 matches scheduled and only your top 12 scores count, this way if you go on vacation you will not be penalized, you will just have less matches to drop.

    In “F” class Steve ended up with a average of 398.27 with a 297 X count for 11 matches, and Gary ended up with a 397.30 average with a 257 X count for 10 matches.

    Steve and Gary placed 16th and 17th overall in “F” class, The winner ended up with a 400 average and with a 413 X count for 12 matches.

    I myself shooting regular prone ended up with a 398.25 average and a X count of 299 and placed 11th overall. The winner had a 400 average and a X count of 391 for 12 matches.

    After not shooting since 2002 and 10 operations, three on my spine and one on my left shoulder ( I shoot left handed with a rifle) I had a lot of difficulties at the start of the season to over come. Well next year hopefully I should be shooting like my old self with more scores of 400 out of 400 and a decent X count.

  • #30356
     Doc Highwall 
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    Some of us are still shooting every Tuesday for a fun match, and a older gentleman named Mike that I met at the range this summer shot a match with my 52 Winchester and really liked it. Due to life at home getting in the way he has not been able to make it to the range to shoot any of the matches. Yesterday he was able to make it and I told him he only needed to bring his glasses and ear protection, and that he could use my rifle. Well he shot a real good score for his first time using this rifle a 400-33X .

  • #30371
     Sgt. Mike 
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    Doc not sure I could keep up with you in the first year in smallbore:D

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