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    • #29904
      Goodsteel
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      I just ran across this G&A review from last year. I think the writers aught to be ashamed, and Remington needs to hire a ballistician, someone who knows what “wood to metal fit” means, a gunsmith who knows how to blue metal correctly, and a big ol boy to slap some of those dipweeds upside the head when they get a bad case of the stoopid.

      http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/marlin-1894-review/

      Here’s my favorite quote from the article:

      all testing was conducted with the factory open sights, and the bench testing was conducted at 50 instead of 100 yards. This shorter range was dictated by a front sight that appeared to be almost invisible, which made it rather difficult to line up on target while keeping it in the notch of the semibuckhorn rear blade. Also, we consider the .44 Magnum cartridge, as powerful as it is in a carbine, to still be a short-range tool. Zeroed at 50 yards, it’s 8 inches low at 150.

      This is not a rifle; it is a quick-handling carbine designed for putting lots of energy on targets fast. We found this new Marlin averaged 2½ inches at 50 yards from a sandbag rest. We also found that from the seated position at 100 yards, all shots could be placed inside an 8-inch circle.

      You’ve got to be kidding me.

      Take a look at the picture gallery. Take a look at the spec sheet (1-38 twist). Take a look at the groups they call acceptable at 50 freakin yards.
      Disgusting.

      They are going to find out too late that people are not “buying the bang” like they used to, and are more interested in whether a rifle shoots like it’s supposed to.

    • #29905
      Harter
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      But “the tool has to be looked at in context of it job” , I believe is what a master gunsmith said to me once.

      ​​​​​​I agree that if you are going to produce a product that hat it should be as good as your best . The other side of the dice is that they have a price window to produce the product in. I would be cranky if I dropped 8 bills on a rifle and it couldn’t be talked into better groups. My Rossi in Colts is a victim of this ,why they put ML PBRB twists in smokeless barrels I can’t guess . Maybe the 40″ blanks cut 10 at a time save $5 a pull for the longer twists over a faster twit I don’t know the answer .

      It is funny how a perspective changes overtime . It used to be that any rifle that shot a random load off the shelf under 2 inches was worth looking for a load shopping the shelf or tuning a perfect load for . Today we expect any rifle off the shelf to shoot 1 of our preferred loads under 2″ or its going back as junk .

      To the article I only read what is in the post and am left to presume the wood fit like a hockey glove on a 4yo and was more than a little proud . It is a 44 mag carbine and as I recall G&A have 4 brands or 5 and 44 doesn’t really come in a lot of weights . So the Twitter ran 200 rounds from 8 boxes in a new from the box gun and showed the best 50yd groups. . Not making a defense just likely facts . I haven’t bought very many new guns and it is only by shear good fortune that I have a couple of really stellar rifles . The only new rifle that comes to mind begs me to fix it . I could afford but I question if it is worth of not . Interestingly enough it suffers the slow twist that is wrong with the 44 it shoots fine groups ,even with me shooting it at 25,50 and 75 yd but is actually hard pressed to hit the broad Sid of a barn at 100. . It is an all issue .

      I hate to say it but American pride in craftsmanship simply doesn’t exist anymore the age of hand fitted minimum tolerance guns is gone and were lucky to get get the good guns that we get assembled by Millions from parts made on Nippon CNC machine from Big Po iron works steel .
      Ackley ,Elmer , and Hatcher are rolling in their graves .

    • #29907
      Goodsteel
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      Harter;n9481 wrote:
      It is funny how a perspective changes overtime . It used to be that any rifle that shot a random load off the shelf under 2 inches was worth looking for a load shopping the shelf or tuning a perfect load for . Today we expect any rifle off the shelf to shoot 1 of our preferred loads under 2″ or its going back as junk .

      That’s still the case Harter, but read the article:

      We found this new Marlin averaged 2½ inches at 50 yards from a sandbag rest.

      The goal is to put every shot within a 5-inch circle at 50 yards

      You know my smoothbore 12 gauge will do better than that with round balls? If they really wanted to save money, they should have omitted the rifling altogether. I think it might have shot better. LOL!

    • #29910
      Butch Wax
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      When Remington disassembled the old Marlin plant and let everyone go and then moved what was left to “Remington-ville” I saw first hand what they were producing. Trash. No other way to say it. They produce(ed) junk. Marlins without the JM proofmark are better off being used as fenceposts than firearms. Yes, Remington should be ashamed at what is going on, but like everything else, profit dictates production. Screw quality. Quanity is where it’s at today. And that’s my opinion and I was in the gunsmith business for over 30 years. And though I specialized in combat handguns, I had my hands on more than one or two rifles and know crap when I see it.

    • #29913
      Harter
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      I had probably 1 of the last 38/357s to roll out with a JM on it ……I’ll get it back some day . It was awesome . I see why now .
      ​​​​​​
      A friend just bought a TV in 45-70 and getting 5 shots in 5 inchds with it would be a challenge in 30 seconds. It too is a JM .

      As a GM once said . “People I’m going to be blunt the fact of the matter is that the bottom line IS the bottom line .”
      This will always be the case and like all things if you want a cheap lever gun you won’t be buying 1 that requires special attention to assembly for everything to fit and function correctly ..

      I like that part about when we set the tools up everything was slopped out so we went ahead and built guns anyway and when we got called on it we decided that major overhauls set in order and how a lever gun has little in common with an 870, 700 or other Mauser knock off , these are hard . Ok it isn’t a quote but that’s what was said .

      ​​​Its amazing how the folks running the tools that know every groan and exactly where/when to wiggle just so to side step the bump or dip in the tooling. Move it 1000 miles put folks on it that have never seen a machine that old or had to work with tool wear as great as the part tolerance and it makes sense …. Except if they knew what they were buying why didn’t fix it when it was set up ? Why did they 1000 mistakes to find a wear issue that should have been found in in the 1st 10?

      We have to rework every cartridge to work in the 1894 platform . Seem to me someone in charge didn’t know that machines aren’t going to be plug and play.
      It still comes back to the bottom line vs craftsmanship.

      I’d bet that a 1965 ,72′,& last Tuesdays off the shelf 700BDL have as much resemblance as a BFP has to an ADL . I can tell you though it isn’t just Remington my Savage 110LH has about as much resemblance to what’s on the shelf now as that does to the Axis line . 1965 was a long time ago. .

      ​​​​​​
      It is what it is we demand a $1000 rifle for $600 the first thing to go is the Monte Carlo fan stock and ebony tips , then the 900polish gets dropped for 650 soon the rollers are plast other parts get stamped.and the

    • #29919
      WCM
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      Maybe Remington got all their problems straightened out now.
      I hated to see Remington buy up Marlin.

    • #29922
      Goodsteel
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      I know the bottom line is the bottom line. What’s that got to do with using the wrong twist?
      Remington had fixed many of the original problems. The latest 1895s that I’ve worked on are far superior. The metal fit is excellent. The wood still looks like pallet tolerances were used. No big deal. They work, they are accurate, and they can be stoned/ rasped into perfection. Marlin had its dips in quality over the years that nobody likes to talk about, and at its worst, the JM plant was turning out an inferior product to today’s Yonkers.

      Thats not my issue with these guns. My issue is that they exhibit less respect for their own rifle than they expect people to have in order to buy that piece.

      Also, why is it so hard for these guys to listen to the voice of experience abd common sense, and put a 1-20 twist barrel on the gosh dam 44 magnum?
      Why make 50 yards s forgone conclusion? That’s dumb as snake mittens.

      The 45-70 is a known “brush caliber” too. What would happen if they started putting a 1-40 twist rate on that one and advertised it the same way?
      It’s no less stoopid ya know?
      I have a feeling they wouldn’t do that for fear of being made the laughing stock of the firearms world. What’s the difference exactly? Why is it acceptable to throw a fine caliber like 44mag under the bus, but not the antiquated 45-70?

      Ill tell you why.
      #1: it’s always been done that way, and if you don’t feel like using your brains for more than to keep your ears from slapping together, you just read what Marlin did abd follow suit, right or wrong.
      #2: Joe public reads an article like the one I referenced, and he doesn’t think twice about what’s actually being said sbd say “seriously?!?!? THIS is what a G&A review has sunk to?

      Im going to write a letter to Freedom Group and tell them exactly what my opinion is of their 50 yard, one pellet at a time, $750 shotgun.

    • #29923
      WCM
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      I have two of the older Marlin guide rifles and they are excellent shooters.
      I bought a blue one when they first came out. The only thing I don’t like about it is that it is ported.
      I bought a second one in stainless for an all weather rifle to hunt rainy days.

      I will probably give the second one to my son since he wants one,and I really don’t need two.

      I have no intention of buying any more Marlins at this time especially a .44 with a slow twist.

      I consider the .44 Magnum a 100 yd cartridge in either a handgun or rifle.

    • #29940
      Harter
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      Let me try this again .

      It isn’t just Remington that has the wrong twist in pistol cartridge rifles . The Taurossi rifles are wrong too and have been for decades.

      That G&A article was typical of why I quit reading theirs when a complimentary/ bonus buy subscription ran out . Rifle and Hand loader are about the only ones I read any more.
      The article says we got 1 it cycles and goes bang and the bullets seem to go in the general direction we pointed them but the sights suck and the rep has an excuse for that .
      Why didn’t they put it in a lead sled with a hydraulic trigger ? Lock it down just like a $1200 super slayer . Because we have low expectations, or at least that writer has , of pistol cal rifles. If a 30WCF shot like that the maker would be crucified ……..or blame the competitors ammo.
      ​​​​​​

    • #29943
      Goodsteel
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      Very true Harter.

      I guess I give Taurus a free pass because they are not US made. I fully expect a place that is run by workers who cannot use the products they sell, to do a google search on what a real firearm producer does and implement it blindly. Can’t expect a sweat shop like that to know anything about ballistics.
      I take a different view if an American company does it. Especially an OLD American company.
      They should know better.

    • #29944
      WCM
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      The shots in an eight inch circle at 100 yds would be about right for the average deer hunter around here.
      Most that I have seen shoot at the local ranges think if they can hit a pie plate at 100 yds that is good shooting.
      I am not exaggerating, that is what I have seen.

    • #29945
      Goodsteel
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      WCM;n9527 wrote: The shots in an eight inch circle at 100 yds would be about right for the average deer hunter around here.
      Most that I have seen shoot at the local ranges think if they can hit a pie plate at 100 yds that is good shooting.
      I am not exaggerating, that is what I have seen.

      Me too. Saw a guy with a Browning BAR limited edition spraying the target at 100 yards. Must have burned 2 boxes of ammo. He would adjust the scope, bang away a few times, then adjust the scope and bang away some more. Only reason I noticed is because he’d whoop and holler every few minutes. exclaiming how awesome the rifle was.
      His last act of the day was to note three bullet holes that landed closest together, and adjust his scope to that cluster……..then he left.
      I gave a funny look to the guy in the stall on the other side of this fellow. He just shook his head chuckling to himself.
      I doubt this genius could hit a deer at 150 yards, and he was thrilled to death about it.
      He must read G&A with accuracy standards like that. LOL!

    • #29946
      WCM
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      I haven’t bought a copy of Shooting and Blasting in about thirty years.
      I use to buy Handloader and Rifle, but even those hold very little interest to me anymore.

    • #30006
      Sgt. Mike
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      Ahemm gentlemen, pay attention this new group of shooter they think the 100 yard line is the old thousand yard line.
      Bottom line is the Millennials are a larger base than the generation before them. When the “baby boomers ” get below a certain level of active gun buyer you will see a degradation like you will not believe in firearms quality. We are almost there as most Baby boomers are not the majority of buyers. After all the cheap product equals more sells, the baby boomers usually will buy a different quality than the Millennials will. Because they don’t know that they don’t know, they will pay more for junk because it says it’s better on the errornet.
      The Millennials are not the problem what is the problem is lack of knowledge.

      I can’t really blame Remington in a way, they will produce the quality that the shooting public will demand.

    • #30013
      JPHolla
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      Sgt. Mike;n9615 wrote: Ahemm gentlemen, pay attention this new group of shooter they think the 100 yard line is the old thousand yard line.
      Bottom line is the Millennials are a larger base than the generation before them. When the “baby boomers ” get below a certain level of active gun buyer you will see a degradation like you will not believe in firearms quality. We are almost there as most Baby boomers are not the majority of buyers. After all the cheap product equals more sells, the baby boomers usually will buy a different quality than the Millennials will. Because they don’t know that they don’t know, they will pay more for junk because it says it’s better on the errornet.
      The Millennials are not the problem what is the problem is lack of knowledge.

      I can’t really blame Remington in a way, they will produce the quality that the shooting public will demand.

      Couldn’t agree more. I recall someone telling about his local range having 25, 50, and 100 yard berms and all the people he has heard referring to them as 100, 200, and 300 yard! Around here, if people can’t shoot they just say “you can’t shoot that far around here anyway.” Apparently they’ve never heard of a field, before.

    • #46224
      popper
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      “Seems the last 30 years has been a contest between American gun manufacturers to see who can sink lowest in accuracy, and they get away with it by using the power of suggestion to make gun owners lower their standards.”

      We say, send the bad ones back.  Huh?  how about the distributors/retailers sending the ‘bad’ ones back?  Think they can’t afford to do it?

      I’ve been looking for a ‘copy’ Les Paul lately.  Thought I’d trade my ‘copy’ strat in.   I’d looked at P & J basses at a big box store, none in tune, cheap strings, etc.  Tried a different (same label) store for the Les (yes, they are all made in Indonesia/China/Korea).  Every one in the store I tried was in tune and set up properly.  You know what store I’ll deal with.

      The background check makes returning a gun nearly impossible so the makers can get away with anything.  C.S. is poop.  Once the seller starts returns or stops ordering, QC at the factory will come back.  It is about the bottom line.

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