- September 19, 2016 at 4:18 pm #30153
The easiest to do this with and really most spot across the board is the Older Redfield with the Accurange of a bygone era .
If you get one of these you don’t need what I’m about to write on and you can move on, as it is a dial and shoot pretty much proposition . About as simple as you can get. But many times this are in short supply.
Today modern scope equivalents are in different formats, mil dots, Mrads, MOA. I will not address all of those in the one example BUT separately, nor will I say one is better, but I will say one is a heck of a lot faster than the others. I will cover different formats within different post within this thread.
I prefer the MOA as it is really what most folks kinda understand here is a type of MOA reticle. Which I will attempt to explain just the MOA reticle and the MOA turrets. Not that this system is better but just easier for some to grasp without overthinking it.
This particular one (reticle) is from a SWFA 20×42 (Stock # – SS20X42MOA) Tactical aka Classic which is a fixed power.
Many prefer shooters variables which are fine but one has to remember to dial the scope into specific power range in order to range properly. The fixed power does not have this issue and it’s focal plane is set properly all the time (hence is why we have to put the scope on a certain power based on Manufacturer). Not a slight on the variable as I have one or two variable with the MOA reticle one is my new production Redfield Revolution TAC MOA (made by Leupold BTW, what to remember is everything is in a name the Revolution line is USA the Revenge is usually Philippines production) this scope is a 3-9 power so I would dial it to 9 power to range with per Redfield. (see below for that reticule which each hash mark is two MOA not one as opposed to he SWFA above)
There are two methods one is to measure width of a known target, or you can measure height both methods will work.
But let’s use white tail deer, Most white tails measure 17-18 inches from brisket to shoulder so I’ll use 18 inches. Why did I use height well on the whitetail it is more consistent than a width as the variance is greater. A Prairie dog as a example I probably would want to use the shoulder to shoulder measurement (width) as it is more consistent than the dog’s height. I’m basing these on what Jack O’Connor has noted in several of his writings and observations of game.
I settle the crosshairs on my intended target and I measure 6MOA
I will then divide 18 by 6 which gives me 3 so I’ll take that and multiply by 95.5 this will return 286.5 well heck my deer is 286 yards away.
The math is the same Width or Height known value divide by MOA multiply by 95.5 = yardage of target.
Now I can remember my tables and hold over, or I can dial in the MOA value and hold center mass. If I am really smart and only shoot ONE load I can have my turret (blank) laser etched for the exact range (for a small nominal cost of course).
- September 19, 2016 at 4:51 pm #30154
95.5 is definitely a number worth a shooter’s time to remember.
One thing I will add is that any reticle can be used to judge range, you just have to play with it to find out what features of the duplex mean what, at such and such magnification. Once you know what MOA your reticle features coincide with at what power, you can easily translate that into yardage using the system Sarge mentions above.
That said, if you do that for a while, you’ll be in hog heaven when you get a scope like the SWFA fixed 10 or 20 where suddenly all those hash marks actually measure your target in precise MOA at distance.
To those who wonder why not just use a laser range finder and call it a day, I would submit to you that range finders work great at close range with ideal conditions, but a trained shooter with a good ranging reticle can make shockingly accurate range estimations on the fly without taking his eye off the target, and he can do so out to 1000 yards or further.
- September 19, 2016 at 7:05 pm #30155
In order to use the Mil Dot or Mrad systems which is same principal just a different formula
I have to have my target size in inches and convert to mils looking at our deer chest cavity 18 inches x25.4 = 457.2
now I measure with my Mil Dot system it is 4 mils so 457.2mils / 4 mils = 114 meters
say if the deer just equals a 2 mil dot 457.2 that is 457.2 / 2 = 228.6 meters.
Now to convert your ballistic table to metric ( easily done with the correct web application).
if I had wanted yards then height of target / target size in mils x 27.77 = yards
same deer 18 (deer chest cavity brisket to shoulder) /4 (mildot size)=4.5*27.77= 124 yards
if the deer measured 2 Mil Dots or Mrads 18/2=9*27.77=249.9yards or 250 yards
- September 19, 2016 at 7:35 pm #30156lar45Participant
- Posts: 21
- Comments: 224
- Overall: 245
Thanks Mike, this is much clearer now. 🙂
- September 19, 2016 at 8:13 pm #30158
Goodsteel;n9835 wrote: ………………………………………….. …….That said, if you do that for a while, you’ll be in hog heaven when you get a scope like the SWFA fixed 10 or 20 where suddenly all those hash marks actually measure your target in precise MOA at distance.
not knocking the SWFA reticle the Redfield revolution MOA TAC reticle is pretty easy as well BUT one has to count the hash marks and multiply by 2 to get the MOA value which in some case we all shut down and counting is worthless. Which give the SWFA reticle a definite edge with the labeling. But to range properly the Redfield has to be thrown on max power as the subtenon are scaled to that power that is the key part. Where as the fixed power is just easier.
The absolute easiest is the OLD Redfield accurange (sometime referred to as accutrac) that Larry Gibson advocates put the chest in the upper two crosshairs dial the magnification until the brisket to shoulder fits read the distance on the lower right had side and dial in your drop and hold center and squeeze.
- September 19, 2016 at 9:44 pm #30160
No argument Sarge, but as you know, there are many variable power scopes on the market that operate in the 1st focal plane. These scopes allow subtention measurements and range figures to be made at any magnification. These scopes are typically more expensive than the normal “2nd focal plane” hunting scopes, but they do eliminate the possibility of errors do to a measurement made with a variable power 2ndFP scope set on the wrong power.
Perhaps the scope that compromises most perfectly with cost and performance is the Vortex Viper PST 6-24X50. I mount more of those scopes for competitors than any other.
That said, I personally figure that the SWFA 10 and 20 power offerings are of similar quality and warranty at 1/4 the cost, and I prefer fixed power scopes.
- September 19, 2016 at 10:16 pm #30162Doc HighwallParticipant
- Posts: 8
- Comments: 123
- Overall: 131
An even faster way to not only judge distance and have the correct hold over is the Shepard scopes that have cross-hairs in both first and second focal planes. I have several of them and they work great!
I have one mounted on my Cooper 57M chambered with the P22LR reticle, that I use a lot out to 300 yards which is as far as my range goes. I also have three others, two with the P2 reticle, and a 6-18 with the V2 reticle.
- September 19, 2016 at 11:39 pm #30165
Of all the scopes I own I like the Leupold TMR reticle on my Mk 4 best.I really don’t like the Mil Dot reticle, but I do have several scopes with that system.
I was bore sighting my Steyr Tactical rifle today. It has the Burris Xtreme XTR 3X12 . It is a nice clear piece of glass with the Mil Dot.
I bought it at a good price ,but it is no Mk4 Leupold.
I usually keep a field range finder with me when shooting at longer ranges.
I also have a Mil Dot master booklet.
I guess I need to spend time learning the system.
- September 19, 2016 at 11:50 pm #30168
Hopefully this helps some before deer season gets here LOL ……
Leupold is my favourite across the board even against scope costing 2 to 3 times more. That being said there are many products that will suit the user out there. be that Vortex, Weaver, Redfield, Lyman, SWFA, Schmitt Bender, Night Force, or any other brand. It’s all preference and what you are used to. ( I have and do own other products than Leupold)
Overlook your literature for the subtenons information on usage in ranging, or call the the vendor of your choice and talk with them without hype .
- September 20, 2016 at 12:39 am #30169
I did most of my open range hunting over the years with a Steyr Professional in .270 win.
I used a Swarovski 6X scope with a fairly heavy duplex.
I sighted the rifle 2.5″ high at 100yds.
Using a 130 gr bullet at 3000 fps I knew the drop of the bullet out to 400 yds.
Most deer I killed at an average distance of 250yds.
I always had good success with the rifle and it is still my favorite long range hunting rifle for deer and antelope sized game.
I could always count on that rifle to shoot MOA with a 130gr Nosler Ballistic tip and 57 grs of IMR 4831.
- September 20, 2016 at 3:29 am #30170lar45Participant
- Posts: 21
- Comments: 224
- Overall: 245
I’ll second Doc’s suggestion of the Shepherd scopes.
Just put the circle that fits over the chest of the deer and pull the trigger.
I just wish they were cheaper.
- September 20, 2016 at 10:43 am #30171
Seems like any glass you drop a k note on is bound to be pretty special.
- September 20, 2016 at 1:16 pm #30173
I bought the Steyr back in 85 because I got tired of getting my head beat in buying rifles with bad barrels .
I knew the Steyr would shoot and it did.
I sighted the rifle in when I got it,and haven’t touched the scope since.
- September 20, 2016 at 3:01 pm #30174
I like the Reticle that Bushnell uses for some of their Elite scopes.
- September 22, 2016 at 2:49 pm #30222Larry GibsonParticipant
- Posts: 55
- Comments: 507
- Overall: 562
I’ve always loved the Redfield Accu-Trac (Original) because they are very fast to use, accurate to use and simple to use. They can also be used for mil measurement quite accurately at any range to 1200 yds/meters. I one time worked with SOTIC trained SF and Ranger snipers at Fort Lewis. It always mystified them how I could hit the target (out to 1000 meters on the then new sniper range, Range 21 if I recall correctly) with a 3×9 Accu-Trac on my Match M1A before they were half way through their mil dot equations………
- September 22, 2016 at 4:47 pm #30230
The Acutrac scopes can be had for low money on ebay BTW.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.