This topic contains 16 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Jniedbalski 9 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #68493
     Rattlesnake Charlie 
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    Things are tough here in northern New Mexico. Actually, all over most of the west. Our local gun club has all outdoor firearm ranges closed as the lab went into Level 2 fire restrictions. This is the driest year on record since they started keeping records in 1880. The forecast doesn’t look good either. A lot of people complain that it is global warming due to CO2 and such. They must have not connected the dinosaur tracks I recently viewed at the Clayton, NM lake spillway with changes in climate. The climate is changing. Always has, always will.

    Our local gun club, Los Alamos Sportsmen’s Club, is on land leased from the DOE. Whenever the lab (Los Alamos National Laboratory) goes into fire restrictions, so does the range.

    Guess there ain’t no excuse to not get caught up on my reloading since my range time is limited. Maybe I’ll just fix a whiskey and coke and contemplate what to do with those 600 once fired 7.62×51 once fired LC brass, already sized, deprimed, and trimmed, for $50 that I just picked up about an hour ago. Gloat. Brag.

  • #68494
     kens 
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    Come over here and see us, we got a really wet season going on right now, the ground is saturated, the green stuffs are very bright. And, the range is soggy, muddy, and wet.

    I guess we are getting all your rain.

  • #68496
     Rattlesnake Charlie 
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    Send it our way.

  • #68498
     Goodsteel 
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    You could make 6.5 Creedmoore out of those brass RC. Heh heh…….

  • #68500
     kens 
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    Is 6.5creedmoore all it’s cracked up to be?  compared to 7mm-08, 7×57, 6.5×55, 257Rob. ???

    Is it REALLY something new???

    What does it do that the above WON’T do?

  • #68501
     lar45 
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    It will sell new rifles.  😉

  • #68509
     Goodsteel 
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    The 6.5 Creedmoore is an exercise in BALANCED performance rather than another cliche’ barrel burner (which I’ve seen enough of for two lifetimes).

    The 6.5CM is the latest in a string of mild cartridges made for economical effectiveness at ranges most Americans have access to (less than 1000 yards). It’s easily beaten by many other cartridges in raw performance, but if you’re looking for “better than 308 but fits in the same action” it scratches that itch. Rather than designing some wizbang cartridge and hoping the industry takes it (thank you Nosler, Marlin, and Ruger) the designers of the 6.5CM were looking to deliver shooters the “Toyota Camry” of the precision rifle world, by designing a cartridge around available and popular components and platforms. Therefore, you have a cartridge that need look no further than H4350 and the Hornady SST and ELD lines for plug and play results. These components just plain WORK. Additionally, this cartridge plugs right into a short action rifle (anything that will hold the 308 will do) and you sacrifice very little barrel life over the 308 for the increased performance.

    Basically, it’s an enhanced 308 Winchester and it works really really well. I could give a rip about popularity contests, but the simple fact of the matter is, the 6.5 Creedmoore is very well designed and it takes full advantage of modern projectiles, propellants, and barrel quality.

    It’s fun to shoot, sexy to look at, and you don’t have to jump through any hoops to get it to play right.

  • #68511
     kens 
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    What might happen if you put Hornady SST/ELD bullets in a 6.5×55 Kreiger barrel M98, bedded , trigger, all the rest of the stuff?

  • #68513
     JRR 
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    The 6.5 Creedmoor, 260Rem, and the 6.5×47 are all designed to be real close in performance to the 6.5×55 but in a short action.  Tim built me a great 6.5×55 on a M98 Turk receiver.  Kreiger barrel, Jard trigger, Farrell base + rings and all the rest of the stuff.

    1700 rounds and still getting excellent accuracy.  147gr Hornady ELD M at 2800 fps.

     

  • #68516
     Goodsteel 
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    The 6.5X55 outpaces the others IMHO. Same plug and play performance at higher velocity (especially when coupled with modern barrels and actions).

    However, if you put the 6.5X55 in a short action, some bullet choices are going to land you in a situation where you run out of magazine before you run out of chamber throat, and on occasion a precision rifle likes to have those bullets seated close to the lands.

    Also, 6.5CM is very very available due to its popularity whereas the 6.5X284, 6.5X55, 6.5X47, 260 Remington, and others are relatively harder to find.

  • #68521
     Larry Gibson 
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    Shot out two 6.5-308 (Remington calls it the 260) barrels 20 to 30 years ago using 120 and 140 gr MKs.  Used the same short actions the CM is on (short action M700s).  Cant say the 6.5 CM shows me anything…….

  • #68524
     kens 
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    From what I understand, the 6.5CM was designed to run 308 brass with the really long heavy bullets, and NOT seat the bullet below the neck. this follows suit with what Tim say about running out of magazine, as well as seating close to the lands. I get that, but, what I don’t get is this:

    all the talk you hear about 6.5CM that it is so darned accurate, the bullets fly so well, the BC is so high, shoots so flat, it does everything except punch holes in the target by itself !! that is all I hear on the range, and all I see is the Ruger precision rifle. I see guys talking a lot, but NOT banging steel……………

    In my inexperienced opinion,  the 57mm cartridges have proven themselves over and over again, be it 7×57, 6.5×55, they not barrel burners, and proven themselves, and spawned many other like .257, 244Rem. which seem to be great also.

    6.5×55 itself has a long throat (remember the mil surp 160gr) and with the longer case body should be able to outrun the CM, correct?

    Looking at the Sierra bullet lineup, there is a very high BC 7mm bullet available, so what is all the talk about the 6.5mm BC?

    I understand the idea of the short action gun, but that is NOT what all the (so-called) Gurus say about the 6.5CM, they ONLY talk about accuracy and BC and flat shooting.

    I want to ponder this:

    If then, accuracy, BC, and flat shooting is the 1 and only topic, then what do you get with a 6.5×55 or 7×57 in a Stolle Panda or similar custom job compared to same gun chambered in 6.5CM?

  • #68526
     Goodsteel 
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    To answer your final question: Nothing.

    all the talk you hear about 6.5CM that it is so darned accurate, the bullets fly so well, the BC is so high, shoots so flat, it does everything except punch holes in the target by itself !!

    Yeah, that’s horse manure.

    In my inexperienced opinion,  the 57mm cartridges have proven themselves over and over again, be it 7×57, 6.5×55, they not barrel burners, and proven themselves, and spawned many other like .257, 244Rem. which seem to be great also.

    No argument. They are ballistically superior cartridges.

    6.5×55 itself has a long throat (remember the mil surp 160gr) and with the longer case body should be able to outrun the CM, correct?

    Correct. It does.

    Looking at the Sierra bullet lineup, there is a very high BC 7mm bullet available, so what is all the talk about the 6.5mm BC?

    Same result, slightly less recoil.

    I understand the idea of the short action gun, but that is NOT what all the (so-called) Gurus say about the 6.5CM, they ONLY talk about accuracy and BC and flat shooting.

    You have to understand that many of these people are new shooters or have experience limited to the 7.62 and 5.56. They want to feel great about their rifle, and they do. Many have never had a real taste of precision and its coincidentally fortunate for them that American barrel and projectile manufacturing has caught some serious lift in the past 15 years. Before that, finding a rifle with a barrel good enough to produce true 1.25MOA or less ten shot groups with factory ammunition was the exception indeed! People were doing it, and doing it well, but if you were not a reloader and your budget necessitated a mid to low grade rifle, you pretty much had to shoot three shot groups and tell fish stories to convince yourself you were doing well (been there, done that, got the T-shirt).

    Now all of a sudden, they go and buy a rifle that is one step above the bottom rung deer rifle, and they start punching decent groups, it’s understandable that these guys would scream from the rooftops that it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread. They don’t know jack about barrel tolerances, or the computer aided design of the bullets and propellants. Most of them think a red tipped bullet is better than a standard soft nose or hollow point just because it looks cool. They see the improved performance of the rifles and they assume there’s something magic about the cartridge. There is not.

    However, I’m just a guy who likes to take the path of least resistance and use what’s easily available. To that end, I’m sitting here saying: No, there’s nothing really amazing about the 6.5CM in and of itself, but given that it’s a shining moment in history where civilian riflemen got their collective stuff together and put together a very ballanced cartridge, that’s not a magnum barrel burner, that is viable at ranges average people shoot at, that doesn’t need you to walk the rice paper, that shoots pretty dam good out of the box, and that shoots real dam well when you tune a load for it………..I’m all for it.

    It’s not big and flashy. It’s tame, balanced, boring, and consistent……….everything I love in a cartridge.

    Sure, all things being equal, there’s about 10 cartridges I’d sooner build a rifle around, but given that it’s so popular and the price is low and availability of components is sky high, I have to give it the nod as an awesome choice. I’d much rather see shooters getting all worked up over the Creedmoore than another 7mm RemMag, 6.5X284, 26 Nosler, or 224 Valkyrie. I shudder to think how many overpowered, ultralight, plastic stocked, shot-out, barrel burners there are floating around out there at gunshows.

    Let me sum up with this: A buddy of mine’s son just bought a nice Interarms MKX in 300 WinMag and my buddy sent it to me for inspection and a muzzle break (because his bad groups MUST be on account of his inability to take the recoil…..). The throat looks like a dry creek bed, and I judge the rifle to have seen its fair share of 1000 shots. I called up my buddy and said “Seriously, you aught to think hard about getting Jr. to let me put a new barrel on it. His reply? “Oh hes a new shooter and he wouldn’t be able to tell the difference anyway”.  So the kid is going to beat himself to pieces shooting a garbage rifle and believing he cant shoot because his dad would discourage him buying into this new fangled wiz bang stuff because rifles have STOCKS, not chassis………..

    Not my kid, but that seems like a serious disservice to me, and if the alternative is that the kid went and bought a Savage RPR, got a taste of real precision, and started his journey on the right foot, I guess I’m more a slave to precision and excellence than to nostalgia.

  • #68528
     kens 
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    I just clicked around for price of brass and ammo, the 6.5CM is by far cheaper than the Mauser cal. selections

    for all other things being equal, the CM is cheaper.

    But gosh, the way all the Gurus are at my local range, I would sure like to spank a couple of them with something old school

  • #68531
     Goodsteel 
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    Kens, if you want to do that, let me build you a rifle like JRRs. I’d put my rifles up against any rifle a guy can lay his hands on for twice the money.

    6.5X55 Swede is the cartridge to do the spanking with too.

  • #68538
     kens 
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    Tim, pls message me on this.

  • #68754
     Jniedbalski 
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    1.  Tim I would like  to have you  build me a 6.5 sweed also on a K98 action. Hopefully one of these days I can afford it. Always wanted one. I guess I can for now buy the cheep axis in a heavy barrel in 6.5 creed. To play with.The 308 axis I got my son shoots cast great and fmjs for a cheep gun. I also got a original 1896? 6.5 sweed Mauser that I bought years ago for 79$ when I had my ffl. Can’t beleve what they are going for now. To me it’s a work of art. the machine work on the receiver,extreamly high polished blue.  the bolt looks like nickel steel, still like polished steel after all these years. Fit and finish awesome. I hope I didint ruin the collector value to much. I had a local gun smith drill and tap it for scope bases years ago.Everything except the bases are as it came from SOG . It’s the long rifle version with beautiful bottom metal andblue. They use to ship the rifle with name of the solder under the butplate. I remember getting the rifle in and the first thing I did was take the plate off to find the paper under it . It was written in pencil with a name I could not read. I had it for years in my dresser but some how it got lost . I haven’t shot it in years. Got ammunition for it last year so in the fall this will change . I remember that it shot really good at 100 and 200 yards.

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