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    • #28547
      jwt
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      I am working on precision reloads using lead bullets for a 270 Winchester in a bolt action rifle and wanted to run my case neck prep plans past the much more experienced group here.

      I am starting with once fired brass that has been trimmed, cleaned/polished, and full length resized.

      • Turn case necks to .0125 thickness (RCBS Trim Pro)
      • Expand neck to .277 ID (RCBS neck sizer)
      • Load .278 sized lead bullet
      • Crimp with seating die or Lee FCD??? What’s the opinion on crimping?
      • Fire form the case
      • Trim to length
      • Clean/Polish
      • Neck size case with .302 bushing (RCBS Gold Medal bushing neck sizer or Forster Precision Plus Bushing Bump neck sizer)
      • Load .278 sized lead bullet
      • Crimp with seating die or Lee FCD???
      • Repeat trim/clean/neck size
      • Anneal after 5 firings and repeat complete process

      I know I am probably missing steps or making wrong steps, so what advice do you all have?

      Are there any preferences between the RCBS Gold Medal bushing neck sizer or Forster Precision Plus Bushing Bump neck sizer?

    • #28548
      Scharfschuetze
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      I think that you’re on the right track, but will your rifle be able to take advantage of the extra case preparation? Many rifles are really not accurate enough to see much of a difference when turning necks. I loaded ammo similarly for 600 and 1,000 yard match shooting; but in the end, I often fired equal scores with the issue match ammo from the Army in both match bolt rifles and the M14.

      I often use the Redding bushing dies and I like those. I’m sure that the RCBS and Forster dies will do just as well. The advantage with them is that you can adjust your internal neck diameter easily with the various size bushings and thus you don’t have to drag an expander through the neck. Slightly bell the lip of the neck with the Lee belling die for cast bullets and you’ll probably reduce your bullet run out by a few thousandths of an inch.

      If you are loading for a bolt rifle (which is probably the case) I wouldn’t bother with crimping unless the ammo is for hunting and may get slammed into the chamber for a fast repeat shot at game.

      Annealing is felt to aid in uniform neck tension and is probably worth the effort.

      If you follow all the steps you’ll at least know that your ammo is loaded as well as can be and that in itself lends confidence in your loads and rifle.

      I might add that weighing your cases and discarding the high and low cases will aid in uniform combustion and velocity which often results in better long range accuracy.

    • #28549
      Goodsteel
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      Scharfschuetze;n7703 wrote: I think that you’re on the right track, but will your rifle be able to take advantage of the extra case preparation? Many rifles are really not accurate enough to see much of a difference when turning necks. I loaded ammo similarly for 600 and 1,000 yard match shooting; but in the end, I often fired equal scores with the issue match ammo from the Army in both match bolt rifles and the M14.

      I often use the Redding bushing dies and I like those. I’m sure that the RCBS and Forster dies will do just as well. The advantage with them is that you can adjust your internal neck diameter easily with the various size bushings and thus you don’t have to drag an expander through the neck. Slightly bell the lip of the neck with the Lee belling die for cast bullets and you’ll probably reduce your bullet run out by a few thousandths of an inch.

      If you are loading for a bolt rifle (which is probably the case) I wouldn’t bother with crimping unless the ammo is for hunting and may get slammed into the chamber for a fast repeat shot at game.

      Annealing is felt to aid in uniform neck tension and is probably worth the effort.

      If you follow all the steps you’ll at least know that your ammo is loaded as well as can be and that in itself lends confidence in your loads and rifle.

      I might add that weighing your cases and discarding the high and low cases will aid in uniform combustion and velocity which often results in better long range accuracy.

      Perfect answer. Couldn’t have said it better myself. To quote Larry Gibson: “You have to have a rifle that can tell the difference……”

      Past that, even if you do have a rifle that can “tell the difference” know that not everything will make a difference in the first place. Shoot multiple ten shot groups, and if you can’t see any improvement, then neither will the deer, the score card, or anything else that matters, and you basically just found a harder way to make ammo. We all are in the same boat where we only have so much time and money to throw at this. I think the goal is to focus on the things that can give you the most return on your time and money. If you use a good method to decide what and where to focus on, you can be sure that you’re doing everything you can to get the most out of your rifle.

      Just don’t feel like all this stuff is a cure all pill every time. It’s fun when it ends up making a difference for you, but all the brass prep in the world is not going to turn a 2.5″ hunting rifle into a reliable tack driver. It just aint in the cards.
      So if all that brass prep gains you 1/2″ off your 2.5″ groups, is it really worth it? Only the guy behind the rifle can answer that.
      Meanwhile, if you’re a competition BR shooter, and you find that you can take 1/2″ off your 3/4″ groups, obviously this suddenly becomes the sort of thing you never ever deviate from under any circumstances.
      The context of the rifle in question is everything.

    • #28553
      Larry Gibson
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      Not much for me to add either as Scharfschuetze and goodsteel pretty much nailed it. I’ll only add a couple suggestions; with a factory chamber, given the usual generous case neck clearance, I wouldn’t turn the necks until after fire forming. At that I would only clean up any high spots and wouldn’t try for thinner more uniform necks. I would also use a bushing and expander giving .002 but not more than .003″ neck tension. As mentioned crimping isn’t necessary.

      As to annealing being that beneficial? For me the jury is still out yet. Even with the most accurate of my rifles I’ve not proven to myself that any variation in the neck tension of case necks case to case has any effect on accuracy as long as the initial inside neck diameter is equal. I’ve sorted by times fired and felt pressure needed to size and expand the case necks along with felt pressure during seating bullets. I’ve yet to find any conclusive benefit. I know BPCR shooters now swear by annealing after every firing. It may be beneficial there given the softer alloys and plain based bullets used. With the harder alloys and GC’d bullets that we use I’ve not found any difference so far. I do anneal necks when they start splitting or after some cases are formed from other cases such as 6.5 Swede and 7.65 Argentine from milsurp ’06s. With new commercial W-W cases used to form the 30×60 XCB I have not annealed at all and the cases (300) are on the 6 – 7th firings. The hardening of the case necks is more a function of the psi of the cartridge used, the expansion on firing and the amount of resizing done more than anything else. In several tests of the RCBS X-dies loading 7.62 and 5.56 I have gotten 20+ firings before any necks split using LC cases. Those tests were with service level equivalent reloads after the first firing which was the milsurp load. With the low pressures of most cast bullet loads many times the case neck will not even fully expand to obturate. Thus if your not over working (sizing) the necks on your 270 cases I seriously doubt annealing will be needed every 5 shots.

      It’s been many years since I used cast in a 270. I’m very interested to hear of your results.

      Larry Gibson

    • #28616
      Sgt. Mike
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      Well glad to hear I wasted my time trimming my ought six USGI to 2.470″ and cleaning the necks up to .011″ uniforming the flashhole and primer pockets after removing the primer crimp LOL.
      Now to pull them out of the tumbler see how bad I screwed them up.
      :rolleyes:

      OK that was meant in good natured humor

      Of course the rifle that i’m prepping the brass for isn’t a factory or milsurp. for the first time out figured I’d reduce the probability of errors by brass prep.
      But, I will echo what Scharfschuetze, Larry and Tim said on factory/milsurp usually will not see a noticeable difference. However it is a mental band-aid or assurance that reduces one variable for me and why I chose to do it. Like Scharfschuetze and Larry has mentioned in the high power game the shooter never really sees the difference. Now a dedicated benchrest gun you “might” see a .100″ or so difference once the load and gun has been tuned. I am not saying that brass prepping will not make a difference, just usually not a big contributor to accuracy as other factor such as bedding or trigger enhancement.

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