This topic contains 10 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Harter 1 year, 7 months ago.

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  • #49749
     Harter 
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    I’ve been reading of late from folks with experience from 50 yr to last Tuesday about lunch .

    It’s funny how you can pick out the modern shooters from the trigger men from the well studied and versed rifleman , regardless of time in service .

    Some shooters struggle to make a bullet work in a particular rifle when a simple style of bullet change would make all the difference . A VLD or even a copper bullet might pay off to keep a shooter in a bullet weight too light for a particular barrel . I read a lot of this in 223/556 platforms where 55 gr FMJ/SP don’t shoot well but tipped and HP do .
    At the other extreme there’s the cast guys that will shoot a bullet that is out well past even explainable weights to take full advantage of a given barrel .

    Of course there are some that even build a rifle around a load or bullet .

    There are too the shooters that are stuck on a particular bullet style/type . “Gotta have a super premium plasma forged mega bullet” , “it’s a VLD or the hiway” types .

    I almost forgot about the “Magnumites”! You know the one , if a 30-30 will do the job 99.999999% of the time if the bullet is even close to where it should be then the 06′ is just barely enough to stretch the range another 100 yd so you absolutely have to have a 30-368 Weatherby if you’re going to do the deal past 210 yds types . These are the same ones that swear a 405 at 2000 fps in a 45-70 is barely a nominal load in No America and want every FPS they can get out of the nominal bullet weights and are often disappointed by bullet performance on target ……

    The shooting nerds , which I’m finding more and more don’t even know they’re shooting nerds , get frustrated with most of the example groups . If a bullet doesn’t work in a particular platform after a dozen or so scientific runs , not 4 loads with 3 powders but full work ups in 5 different head stamps , 3-5 powders , 3 primers and 3 OALs they try a different bullet . If of course they also do barrel changes and sometimes buy an exotic firearm just to see what can be done with it .

    I’m somewhere in the middle , I’ll fuss and fidget with something until I figure out mechanically why it’s doing what it’s doing or more specifically not doing what it’s supposed to be doing .
    I have been known to take things to an extreme in order to get a mechanical solution . Why the heck would a maker choose a twist so slow that it allows nominal bullets in nominal shelf loads to fail at in a scientific proof way 100% on demand ? Meanwhile another maker takes the same cartridge to the opposite extreme in a companion platform ……. Thanks for the 32&38″ twists in 45&44 Rossi ……. I this case having exhausted profile , weight and anything resembling “reasonable” data it calls for a barrel change . As long as we’re at it we may as well get it chambered close enough to share necked brass with the BlackHawk sister .

    Doesn’t anybody use manuals and all of those cool tables that are in the back , or at least some sort of an app to go with the corp online sources ?
    I don’t have and don’t guess I’ve ever had magnumitus , unless we look at that as being allergic to mags . Ok , sure , but , what self respecting shooter doesn’t have a 357 ? Of course I shoot +P in the BlackHawk ……..no , actually , I do shoot a nominal max load for the cartridge but not really a +P ……
    I’ve probably spent enough on bullet moulds to have rebarreled the rifles that made me look for a bullet that would work . Does a guy really need 6 moulds for a 45-70 , with 1 rifle ? I probably don’t need the other 8 and a cross over for 3 ACPs , 3 Colts and a Schofield either ……… I’m almost embarrassed by the number of 30 cal moulds ….almost , you need options when you have 4 twists in 3 chambers .

    Ok fine , I’m a gun nerd .

  • #49764
     Larry Gibson 
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    Have to say, that is an interesting “perspective” ……… I must be a gun nerd also………

  • #49765
     uber7mm 
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    “Some shooters struggle to make a bullet work in a particular rifle when a simple style of bullet change would make all the difference .” 

    Harter, You hit the nail on the head.  There’s a lot of truth in this sentence.

    Thanks for your perspective.

    uber

     

  • #49766
     kens 
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    Oh yeah, there is many perspective.

    Where is the one posted about a similar deal on the indoor range,? it was a good read too.

    I got a perspective this past weekend. Our local gun club has had problem with shooters on the 500yd range. Folks were missing the berm and skipping bullets who knows where. ( I wonder if I can hit this gong mentality) So the club invented a safety & qualification mandatory before shooting on the long range. I showed up for my safety course Sunday, along with several others.

    The original email we got stated to show up with a scoped rifle already sighted in at 100yards prior to the meeting. All I got sighted in & scoped is a janky old mauser for deer in the brush. I took it.

    When I get there what do I see? AR’s with bolt action uppers, custom guns, and Tim’s favorite; the Ruger Precision Rifle, many of them. ( all in the latest rage, the (6.5 blowmore).  I took the time to re-verify my zero @ 100yds, then went to the long range benches. I show up to be greeted by all the RPR (ruger-precision-rifle) guys talking about ballistic coefficient of 6.5; RPR, blowmoor, etc., etc., etc. Blah blah blah bullet really flies well, and so on. The instructor says he wants everybody to bang the gong @ 300 to qualify.   so I use Kentucky windage to bang it 2 of 4 rounds.

    I’m watching all the RPR crowd, along with their ‘MATCH’ 6.5 blowmoor ammo, and I’m waiting for someone to bang the gong. I did not want to disturb my zero for my deer gun, but cranked it up anyway, like 25 clicks. I took my mil-surp  bandoleer ammo and flogged the gong, both 300 & 500yds.

    there is a difference between flogging the gong, and, flogging your dong

    My own perspective is that the quality of the ‘salesmanship’ of the RPR and/or the 6.5 Blowmoor FAR exceeds that of the ‘marksmanship’ of those buying it.

     

  • #49767
     Harter 
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    Ken’s
    My own perspective is that the quality of the ‘salesmanship’ of the RPR and/or the 6.5 Blowmoor FAR exceeds that of the ‘marksmanship’ of those buying it.

    There is no doubt about this . I have 1 6.5 and based on the little bit of piddling around with it I’ve done I fully believe the 6.5 wonder cartridges are significantly over rated .
    I think probably there are a lot of marksmen that aren’t riflemen .
    The people in the show booths look at me all sideways when I ask about a scope that’s a fixed 4x or 6x with a plain duplex . Then slowly the light comes on , ” oh he’s one of those old school one rifle guys ….”
    Leopold is the cheapest one .

  • #49770
     kens 
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    The specific perspective was a guy with RPR, bipod, monopod under the butt, Vortex tactical scope, match ammo, and totally missed the berm. oh, he was wearing the shooters catchers mitt to boot !!!

    I had a janky mauser with a Weaver K4. and, I barrelled it myself with a used mil-surp .308 barrel

  • #49771
     Harter 
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    Rifleman vs Marksman .
    If the operator can’t put it on target it doesn’t matter if the rifle will shoot a .1 10 shot or not . Which is what makes a Rifleman not a shooter .

  • #49777
     Artful 
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    Having been a range officer, I can tell you most time’s it’s never the gun, it’s the shooter behind those shotgun pattern rifle groups.  You will occasionally see someone with a mil-surp with a shot out barrel but most commercial guns suffer from a jerk behind the trigger.  And these days you have a lot of new AR owners who played to many video games I think as they all want to audition for the A-Team.

  • #49779
     Harter 
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    I have an adapted technique that kills me on pistols …….
    The curse of swinging shotguns for groceries and trying to get the load . As a result I have an expectant rifle almost flinch squeeze and a swing timed squeeze on shotguns which is really the same thing in both cases . If I’m not 100% dedicated to my pistol work I pull low every time . I think shooting a bow with fingers actually is what caused that .

  • #49784
     Artful 
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    Harter try shooting a bunch with your handguns in your non-dominant hand, it may help you concentrate on the trigger squeeze and after shooting with the “wrong” hand when you get it back your normal hand again you may have helped rewire your trigger squeeze.

  • #49822
     Harter 
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    Artful
    I’m , for lack of a better description , a double cross dominant non ambidextrous shooter ……
    I was a left eyed shooter until the left eye vision crash about 15 yr ago . I shot a bow right handed both open during the crash . I’ve also always shot pistols right hand/left eye and long guns left/left .

    My rifleman skills are really my only source of “blame it on bad wiring” something to bitch about that I could fix if not for the swirling vortex of life stuff I seem to be wadding around knee deep in all the time .

    I’m not near the shooter of many here , ASC or CB , but if it comes to groceries or stopping something I dont imagine there would be any problems . At my “peak” I regularly shot 5″ @50 with the RBH standing off hand field Weaver not great but the load and revolver were only good for about 3″@50 with that chamber that still throws 1 out . I have a couple loads in a few rifles that will go pretty regular inside and inch CTC and from field positions for the mountain west 3″@100 is about as good as it gets , although I have had some much longer shots from 3 ton granite boulders for benches . I shoot 95% from impovised rests that run from an elbow on my hip 3-4 fingers on the fore end to truck hoods to 3 point sitting in the dirt . Truth told I really don’t shoot well from a bench , but a running hog has lost both lungs and a hunk of heart and I did once break a thrown clay pigeon with a 22 LR (shhhh don’t tell anybody but that’ll never ever happen again). I’ve picked off a teal out of a flushing float of coots but I can’t shoot quail whether I sneak them and prep the flush or step on them . I once 7/11 on dove with a full choke 410 . I’ve dinged steel with combinations that were impractical at ranges just plain silly for what I was working with ……. You can use the barrel band of a Marlin 1894C for a hold over point if you can also keep the front sight on the target out to about 325 yds in 357 .

    I shoot well enough but I’m no dedicated master , and I can admit that freely .

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