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    • #25535
      GRUMPA
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      Some time ago I bought a few K of the CCI SP primers, this was back when things were kinda hard to find. When I got them I had about a 10-20% FTF rate and just put them on the shelf for a later time. I know I did everything right, seating, cleaning the primer pocket, etc. I had an idea today (rather dangerous) and loaded a few 223 just to see what would happen, all 10 fired just fine. No pierced primers, no flaws of any kind.

      I’ve read in the past of folks using SP primers for SR when the need arises, but it seems the firing pin pretty much pokes a hole in the primer since from what I’ve read anyways…..the SP primer cup is thinner than that for the SR.

      I’m wondering if for some unknown reason the primers got mixed up. And what I mean they put SR primers in the SP box by mistake. Here I am wondering why it is all of a sudden I’m getting so many FTF with that batch of primers in my pistols, but when used for 223 rounds everything indicates the primers are fine.

      These aren’t week rounds either, 26.5 748 and a 55gr FMJ.

      What do you guys think?

      Is my thinking correct or at least in the right frame of reference?

    • #25536
      Artful
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      Possible but unlikely – and I know that CCI and Winchester are harder cups than the other makers.
      It is strange that you didn’t have more flow when fired in a rifle.
      Are all the primers in the same lot?

    • #25539
      Anonymous
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      From the web so use at your own risk

      CCI 400 550 primer spm sr
      According to Speer/CCI Technical Services – Both the CCI 550 Small Pistol Magnum and CCI 400 Small Rifle primers are identical in size. Both primers use the same cup metal and share the same cup thickness. Both primers use the same primer compound formula and same amount of primer compound. They can be used interchangeably

      PRIMER CHART & REFERENCE GUIDE

      Small Handgun Standard .017″ cup thickness

      CCI 500
      Federal 100 – Has a soft cup – good to use if hammer strike is light.
      Federal 100M – Match version of above
      Magtech PR-SP
      Magtech PR-SPC – Lead-free “Clean Range” primer for indoor ranges etc.
      Remington 1 ½
      RWS 4031
      Winchester WSP
      Wolf/Tula Small Pistol SP #KVB-9 – brass cup – “For Standard Pistol loads”
      Wolf/Tula Small Pistol #KVB-9SP – “For 9×19 NATO cartridges”
      Wolf/Tula Small Pistol #KVB-9S – “For Sporting Pistol loads”

      Small Handgun Magnum .017″ cup thickness

      CCI 550 See Note 1 at the bottom of page
      Federal 200
      Federal 200M – Match version of above
      Magtech PR-SPM
      Remington 5 ½
      RWS 4047
      Winchester WSPM
      Wolf/Tula Small Pistol Magnum SPM #KVB-9M – brass cup – “For Magnum Pistol loads”

      Large Handgun Standard .020″ cup thickness

      CCI 300
      Federal 150 – Has a thinner cup
      Magtech PR-LP
      Remington 2 ½
      RWS 5337
      Winchester WLP
      Wolf/Tula Large Pistol LP #KVB-45 – brass cup – “For Standard Pistol loads”

      Large Handgun Magnum .020″ cup thickness

      CCI 350
      Federal 155
      Wolf/Tula Large Pistol Magnum LPM #KVB-45M – brass cup – For Magnum Pistol loads

      Small Rifle Standard

      CCI 400 -thin .020″ cup, not recommended for AR15 use by CCI/Speer. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine. See Note 1 at the bottom of the page
      CCI BR4 – match primer with a thicker .025″ cup.
      Federal 205 – Mil-Spec cup thickness according to Federal – okay for 5.56mm. .0225″ cup thickness.
      Federal 205M – same as the 205 but the match version.
      Magtech PR-SR – .025″ cup thickness (not much feedback yet on this new primer as to AR15 suitability but with the same cup thickness as the Rem 7 1/2 it looks good so far)
      Remington 6 ½ – thin .020″ cup, intended for older, lower pressure rounds Remington says do not use for the .223 Rem or other similar pressure rounds. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine.
      Remington 7 ½ BR – A match or “bench rest” primer. Lyman & Nosler classify this primer as a Standard. Remington says the compound is the same as the 6 1/2 but with a thicker .025″ cup.
      RWS 4033
      Winchester WSR – some piercing issues noted when changed from silver to brass cup. Cup thickness is a bit thinner at .021″. Most say they are good to go for the AR15 despite that, probably because of the hardness of the cup. Some feel they are less resistant to higher pressures.
      Wolf/Tula Small Rifle SR #KVB-223 – soft, sensitive copper cup, not recommended for AR15/military rifle use or high pressure rounds.

      Small Rifle Magnum

      CCI 450 – same thicker .025″ cup as the BR4 and #41.
      CCI #41 – commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo. With this primer there is more ‘distance’ between the tip of the anvil and the bottom of the cup than with other CCI SR primers. .025″ thick cup. Same primer mix as CCI 450.
      Remington 7 ½ BR – A match or “bench rest” primer. Hornady, Handloads.com, and Chuck Hawks classify this primer as a Magnum, differing from other sources that classify it as a Standard. .025″ cup thickness.
      Wolf/Tula Small Rifle Magnum SRM – hard, less sensitive brass cup intended for AR15/military rifle and high pressure rounds – #KVÐ’-5,56M.
      Wolf/Tula Small Rifle 223 SR223 – #KVB-223M “This is the newest primer available in the Wolf line. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup. This primer can be used in place of the SRM primer or used when a different powder is used that is hard to ignite.”

      Large Rifle Standard

      CCI 200 – mild in brisance. Hard enough for use in semi-automatics.
      CCI BR2 – same as the 200 but the match version. Hard enough for use in semi-automatics.
      Federal 210 – medium brisance between CCI/Remington & Winchester. Do not use in semi-automatics.
      Federal 210M – match version of the above primer. Do not use in semi-automatics.
      Magtech PR-LR
      Remington 9 ½ – mild in brisance.
      RWS 5341
      Winchester WLR – the hottest standard primer. Hard enough for use in semi-automatics.
      Wolf/Tula Large Rifle LR #KVB-7 – all brass – “For Standard Rifle loads”.
      Wolf/Tula Large Rifle #KVB-7,62 – “For 7,62 NATO cartridges”

      Wolf/Tula primers are used by noted match shooter David Tubbs who says: “Be sure they are seated into the case – if not they can be hard to ignite. Russian primers use a different sinoxide compound (closer to the European type), which, in my testing, consistently delivers better extreme spreads over Federal…” Hard enough for use in semi-automatics.

      Large Rifle Magnum

      CCI 250
      CCI #34 – commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo.
      Federal 215 – original magnum primer
      Remington 9 ½ M – mildest magnum primer.
      RWS 5333
      Winchester WLRM
      Wolf/Tula Large Rifle Magnum LRM #KVB-7M – all brass – “For Magnum Rifle loads”.

      50 BMG

      CCI #35 – commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo.
      Winchester 8312
      Wolf/Tula 50 Cal Machine Gun #KVB-50 – For 50 Browning Machine Gun

      Primers recommended for use in .223 Rem/5.56 semiautomatic rifle loads:

      CCI #41, 450, BR4 (#41 & 450 good with ball powder)
      Federal 205, 205M
      Remington 7 1/2 BR (good with ball powder)
      Winchester WSR (good with ball powder)
      Wolf SRM (good with ball powder)
      Wolf SR223 (hotter than SRM – great with ball powder)

      Primers recommended for use in .308 Win/7.62×51/7.62×39 semiautomatic rifle loads:

      CCI #34, 200, BR2, CCI 250
      Winchester WLR, WLRM (good with ball powder)
      Wolf LR

      WOLF/TULA PRIMER APPLICATION CHART FOR ALL PRIMERS – http://www.mpzflame….uction/primers/
      Wolf and Tula are two of the common U.S. marketing names of primers made by Murom (OJSC «Murom Apparatus Producing plant» “For many years, our constant partners are «The Tula Cartridge Works», «Barnaul Cartridge Plant» and others.”).

    • #25541
      GRUMPA
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      Artful;n3925 wrote: Possible but unlikely – and I know that CCI and Winchester are harder cups than the other makers.
      It is strange that you didn’t have more flow when fired in a rifle.
      Are all the primers in the same lot?

      I have more than a few primers to play with, you name and I pretty much have it kinda thing. In the past I’ve used nothing but FC and Win primers and never so much as a hint of a FTF issue. Rarely do I get to play with R-P primers but I do have just a few of those.

      I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around the statement where more flow is mentioned though, dunno what that means.

      And yes…..all the primers are from the same lot, the CCI’s in question.

      I know anything is possible, that’s why I had some odd idea that perhaps they were wrongly packaged. To me this is about the only logical reason why I seem to be having issues.

      I made some up for a local that ran a few hundred through what I’ll call his toy, full….semi….they worked great. But the bolt on that thing really has some force behind it when the pin hits the primer. Using those in SR configuration with the increase in force on the pin they seem to work as they should.

    • #25542
      Artful
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      flow referring to the brass of the primer cup – meaning using SP in a 223 will usually result in primer cratering and the like.

    • #25544
      Uncle Grinch
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      If you were to contact CCI, they might be able to confirm by batch number if they are SR or SP.

    • #25582
      Kevin S
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      Was there a reason nothing was said concerning S&B primers?

    • #25706
      bjornb
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      I have a very non-scientific opinion of all things S&B: It’s janky stuff. I have loaded around 2500 rounds with the S&B LR primers I bought right after Sandy Hook, and they have all gone bang. However, I have also learnt to sort out ALL S&B cases from range pick-up brass; it makes for a much more pleasant sizing session later. So when I load rifle ammo for precision I use CCI, Winchester and Federal. It’s just a gut feeling and I don’t have a damn bit of fact to back it up with.

      I’m sure the mileage of others vary.

    • #25711
      Screwbolts
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      JHSfun, thank you 4 posting that info/find, I believe it is a valuable addition.

      Ken

    • #25729
      lar45
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      Lots of good info, I think I need to print it out and stash in my load book.

    • #25761
      GRUMPA
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      Right now I’m using them as SR primers and like I said they work just fine. I have some set aside at the moment and as soon as this cursed wind stops I plan on setting up the Chrony to see just how just how fast these are going.

      But for right now if I took all those SP primers and stuck them in SR primer boxes…..you would never know the difference.

    • #26109
      GRUMPA
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      Got them tested a few days back, all 10 were within 15rps with a speed of 2990 out of a 16″ barrel. Everything looked just peachy, primers were as expected. Something odd with those primers though, just couldn’t figure them out….

    • #26201
      dragon813gt
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      JHSFun;n3928 wrote: From the web so use at your own risk

      CCI 400 550 primer spm sr
      According to Speer/CCI Technical Services – Both the CCI 550 Small Pistol Magnum and CCI 400 Small Rifle primers are identical in size. Both primers use the same cup metal and share the same cup thickness. Both primers use the same primer compound formula and same amount of primer compound. They can be used interchangeably

      This is not true, you put the disclaimer which is good. You can call CCI and ask them yourself. This is one piece of information that gets passed around as fact when it isn’t true. They are the same size but all small primers are. The priming compounds used are different. In brisance tests the SPM primes usually yield higher results. They are not a straight swap and loads need to be worked back up when switching between the two. I routinely use SR primers in place of SPM primers. But the loads were worked up this way from the start. The firearms they are used in have no issues lighting them off.

    • #27102
      matrixcs
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      Let me add to the confusion.. I remember being told by a representative of one of the primer manufacturers (wish I could remember which one) that the difference between their sp and sp nato primers was the anvil height not cup hardness ie. shorter anvil requires harder hit. Perhaps you got the MIL sp in the box.

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