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    • #25083
      lead-1
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      OK guys, I bought a rifle today on a whim and I hope I didn’t mess up so I’m here for opinions.
      It is a Remington 700 action with an H-S Precision stock like what is on the PSS series, it has a heavy contour, stainless barrel marked 308 Match that the guy had threaded he muzzle so he could run his suppressor on it.
      My real concern is that the barrel is only 17 inches long and a 1-12 twist, should I be able to get anything from 125 grain to 178 grain jacketed bullets to work in this rifle, at least out to 300 to 400 yards at the most? A ground hog and paper hunter and most likely 200 yard max range.

      I know, I know, jacketed bullets. Don’t beat me up too bad, lol.

    • #25087
      MTtimberline
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      May I ask how much $ you are into it so far?

    • #25090
      lead-1
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      $600 with scope mount installed, so it is within reason. I’m not getting clobbered on it but not a steal either.

    • #25092
      Harter
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      I have 2 1-1230 call the 308 won’t shoot any of the 180 I tried . The 30-30 however seems like it will shoot the NOE 311-230 FP ,no logical answer I can think of. The the heavy weights will be touchy as to working . The 17″ bbl will probably work against you for the heavies too. I think you’ll do pretty well up to the 165-168 gr . Where you’ll see 2800 from a 150 gr, you’ll probably only see about 2500 .

    • #25101
      Artful
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      Great choice for subsonic with suppressor – not so good for 1,000 yard – you should still be good to 500 w/ 155 or 168.

    • #25115
      Larry Gibson
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      From my experience with several 18″ .308Ws you will lose 150 – 200+ fps from 22″ barreled velocities.. It is going to be loud…..did I mention it was going to be loud? You will probably want a suppressor on it or at least a good flash suppressor. I put M14 flash suppressors on several short barreled .308Ws and ’06s and it was surprising how much they break up the muzzle blast. You did good on the deal especially if it had a decent scope on it. Easy enough to get (only takes money) a very good 26″ + barrel on it with a 12″ twist, or better yet a 14″ twist. Then you’ll have an excellent cast bullet shooting rifle that will also handle jacketed bullets well. Compromise with a 13″ twist and you will also have a 1000 hard capability with Sierra 175 gr MKs.

      If a new barrel is considered I whole heartedly recommend goodsteel to install it. His work is meticulous, precise and timely.

      Larry Gibson

    • #25117
      Goodsteel
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      12 twist goes with the 168 Hornady or Sierra like peas and carrots. I wouldn’t even look at anything else.
      Load up 20 rounds with the 168SMK .005 off the lands. Use 41.5gr of IMR4895. CCI LR primer. Trimmed cases of the same manufacture.

      Use 5 shots to get on target, then dump the rest into one point of aim from sand bags with your elbows supported.

      If those 15 shots do not go into 1.5″, you have reason to buy another barrel. Without fail, every rifle I build in 308 with a 12 twist will shoot clover leaf groups with this load (for 24″ barrels I up the powder charge to 42-43 grains depending on if the brass is LC or not).

    • #25127
      lead-1
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      Thanks guys, I will have to load up a box of rounds in Goodsteel’s recipe and give it a try, the rounds I load for my 700 PSS are in the 43-44 grain range of IMR 4064. For some reason I was thinking to make this shorter barrel work I needed the twist rate to go the other way for heavier bullets.
      There I go thinking again.

    • #25129
      lead-1
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      I really aren’t not dum, lol, it’s getting to be one of them “If you don’t use it, you lose it” things. What rifle shooting I have done in the last couple years is very slim and using shells I loaded ten years ago. I have a 243 BDL that hasn’t been shot in twenty years and a couple others that is not far behind. 😮

    • #25133
      skeettx
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      And if the muzzle flash and noise are too high, you can move back towards IMR 3031
      This gun should shoot quite well, look at the old Remington Model 600s in 308
      Mike

    • #25180
      JPHolla
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      It is going to be loud…..did I mention it was going to be loud? You will probably want a suppressor on it or at least a good flash suppressor. I put M14 flash suppressors on several short barreled .308Ws and ’06s and it was surprising how much they break up the muzzle blast.

      Yeah, I’d shot 16″ barreled rifles in full sized rifle cartridges before, and I bought a Ruger GSR year before last, and I couldn’t believe how much that Ruger flash hider helped with the blast. You don’t get that “fireball licking your eyelashes” feeling at all when it goes off.

    • #25193
      MTtimberline
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      Sounds like you did good with a Remington. Nice thing about a 700 is it a good action that can be made into anything you want down the road. I have a parkerized Rem 700 ADL in .30-06 I bought for a good price just for the action for a jacketed project I was wanting to do. Now I’m looking for a short action to go another route with that and using the LA to learn more about cast in rifles. Plans change and maybe your .308 might end up with a lead-free diet in the future.

    • #25287
      lead-1
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      I was able to go to the range today with the above mentioned Rem. 700 and while the results weren’t 100% positive, the faults were mine. I felt that I was as steady as hot air balloon in a hurricane and actually can’t wait to go back out. I did manage to get a few strings in the 3/4″-1 1/2″ at 100 yards and then hit a 8″ or 10″ gong at 200 yards nine of ten shots. The ammo was rounds that I loaded for my 700 PSS with 24″ barrel, I didn’t get to try Goodsteel’s recommended load because I discovered that I was out of IMR 4895.
      My load today was 41.5 grains of IMR 4064, CCI 200 primer pushing a Sierra 168 grain HPBT match bullet from Winchester USA brass. I also have plenty of powder to try including IMR 4064, H4895, Varget and W748 without running out to buy IMR 4895.

    • #25314
      Smoke4320
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      If you are shooting jacketed bullets I would also suggest 748 and 150 gr Nosler BT;s or Hornady A Max .. either should do extremely well is a 17-18″ 308 1-12 barrel accuracy wise

    • #25355
      Rossi.45
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      this is a timely . . . can i ask those with experience of 1-12 .308s how heavy you can go accurately with that twist with cast at subsonic speed . . . any ideas ?

    • #25358
      Larry Gibson
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      In a 12″ twist;

      A 200 gr Hornady RN at 1.263″ length is stable at 1400 fps

      A 175 MK at 1.245″ length is stable at 1600 fps

      A 311299/314299 cast at 1.195″ length is stable at 750 fps

      A 311041 (177 gr) at .988″ length is stable at 225 fps

      Weight and length are the critical figures to determine adequate velocity for stability in a given caliber/twist.

      Larry Gibson

    • #25385
      Rossi.45
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      cheers for the info Larry, appreciate it .. . i’m looking at going from my usual 1-10 rifles ( .308W, .30/30 ) to a heavy barrel Rem700 varmint 1-12
      i should be ok then with 180FP RCBS ( casts 197grns – preferred bullet ) or as a plan B 31141 at 1,000fps

      the intention is to shoot as far ‘ out there ‘ as i can with a subsonic load into a 6” square on a steel plate. . . 405 yds so far with a .30/30 Marlin, Not for hunting, just for the fun / challenge of it.

      R.

    • #25404
      Scharfschuetze
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      Here is the JBM ballistics site’s link: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

      You can play with different bullets and rifling twists at this site.

    • #25433
      Smoke4320
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      I have a FN PBR 308 20″ 1-12 that shoots a NOE 247 GR HP very very accurately to 100 yds subsonic .. at about 170 yds it goes nuts

      ” A 311299/314299 cast at 1.195″ length is stable at 750 fps” quoted from Mr Gibson
      This one was also very accurate from my gun… Chose to go with the NOE so I could HP it .. In the end not sure it matters .. They just punch right thru a deer anyway at 75 yds

    • #26747
      Artful
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      I’m surprised the 247 grn does well subsonic in that slow a twist

    • #26771
      Goodsteel
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      You said you were unsteady. That’s not you, it’s the way you built your position. I found out a long time ago that if I let the gun wander, it will.

      I can get anybody to shoot to the capability of the rifle or close to it, just by doing these simple things:
      1. support the forend with something soft and solid like a sandbag.
      2. support the toe of the stock the same way.
      3. plant both elbows so you don’t have to hold them up.
      4. do not wrap your thumb around the stock. Place it directly in the middle of the stock, or just to the right (for a RH shooter).
      5. Before shooting the rifle, dry fire it at the target while looking through the scope. If your position is good and you have good trigger control, the cross hairs will not move. If they do, then change your position so they don’t. When you can dry fire three times and nothing moves, shoot your group in the same way.

      Do this, fire ten shots, and you can hang that target on the wall as a representation of what your barrel is capable of doing.
      If it’s good, awesome.
      If it’s bad, decide if its good enough for what you need the rifle to do. If it’s not, then have it rebarreled.

    • #29203
      lead-1
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      Tim, I got to try your method today while trying out some H4895 loads for this rifle. I still had a little trouble because I feel the club benches were built for someone a foot shorter than me, I feel scrunched up and struggle to get truly comfortable. The rear cut outs on the benches are positioned as such that I couldn’t get my right elbow planted but hugs the edge of the bench so to speak.
      However I was able to get some good groups from what I tried out with the best so far being 42 grains getting me six of seven rounds in just under 1 1/4″ at 100 yards.
      I got the odd number of rounds because I was just trying some loads to see what direction I needed to look.

      Not wrapping my thumb was a little awkward at first but it didn’t take long for me to feel that not squeezing the stock give me a better trigger pull. That may not be the reason for doing this and be my imagination but that’s what I gathered from doing it that way.

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