- May 7, 2016 at 1:38 am #27639
I’ve been shooting the same old generic load in my M44 for several years,but it’s been a good one. Basically it’s the Lee 160 gr. TL GC RN bullet lubed lightly with my Alox/JPW lube once before and once after applying a gas check,it’s mostly a bore rider bullet with the back driving band and gas check ending up at whatever you size it to which in my case is .314″ an is as large a bullet as it will chamber the bore measures .312″ groove to groove. I’ve been pushing this bullet with the Ed Harris load of 16.0 grs. of Alliant 2400.
I recently just picked up and reworked a 1933 HEX receiver Tula 91/30 it has an excellent bore and I believe it will be a great shooter as well,the bore on it slugged between .312 & .313″ I still have to find out just how large a dia. bullet it can chamber possibly a .316″ but I’ll be trying some of my .314″ in it next weekend.
Anyway I’m open to any suggestions on heavier bullet weights that would work well with the Mosin’s twist rate as well as some slower burning powders that I can use with the longer barrel 91/30. Developing an accurate load is more important to me than MV but I would like to get into the 2K fps. +range eventually.
- May 7, 2016 at 2:40 am #27643GhostHawkParticipant
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I bought a pair, both 91/30’s one a 42 other a 43. Both slug .312 and I prefer the lee .312 185 gr gas check leemented or beagled out to .314 and a .314 sizer for crimping on gas checks. I run mine with both Red Dot and IMR 4895. Both do fairly well, but nothing to get excited about. My biggest problem is old eyes and I hate to bubba up a nice rifle trying to put a scope mount on it. I really am not a fan of the forward mounted scout type scopes.
So there they sit. They get out to the range once a year or so. They do pretty well at 50 but 100 yards is a lot tougher with iron sights and old eyes.
I have been using Ed’s 13 grains of Red Dot load, it seems to be a solid performer.
My best accuracy has been around 28 grains of IMR 4895. I have tried the Lee .312 155 gr but lost some accuracy someplace.
My shoulder however prefers the Red Dot load. And as there is not a lot of difference, and as i have many more pounds of Red Dot than 4895 I tend to shoot the Red Dot loads mostly.
Personally I never worried about speed much. Easier to get a load to track well in that 16-1700 fps range, and it will go through anything I’m likely to need to shoot.
- May 7, 2016 at 9:47 pm #27660
MNs in excellent condition can indeed be excellent shooters. I recently won the Arizona CBA Military Rifle match with a Fin M39 hex receiver Sako rebuild (1944) that I got in basically new unissued condition numerous years ago. Any perceived “collector” value was lost on me as I got it to use, shoot and enjoy……in my own way. The way I look at it any “history” it may have had is lost to history. I am making my own “history” with it so when I’m gone that will be the only real known “history”. Besides, when I’m gone I probably won’t be worrying about any perceived “value” having been lost. Just my own out look is all, I’ve no complaint with those who want to keep them original. Thus I have modified the bedding, refined the 2 stage trigger pull the Finns put in, modified an SKS safety and installed it. replaced the bolt with a sniper bolt and D&T’d the front receiver ring for a scope base. The scope base was modified to work with the M91/30 sniper bolt handle and an original Weaver T-6 was installed in as low as possible rings that still allowed bolt manipulation. I also added a leather cheek piece to aid in a consistent spot weld for the scope. Here’s a pic of it minus the cheek piece.
If you are going to shoot your MN a lot with reloads I suggest a NS die as most all FL dies will over size the case which leads to short cast life. The Norma cases I am using are from some once fired I got at a gunshow in ’90. They have been fired in another Finn M91 several times and then were partial sized to just fit the chamber of the M39 and have been fired I have no idea how many times because except for the one partial FL resize they have only been NS’d. Many years back I got a Redding .284 Winchester bushing die and shortened it for the 7.62x54R case. I use bushings that just size the neck only enough for .002 – .003 neck tension. Given the .311 – .314 size cast and jacketed bullets used the necks are worked very little. The cost of the bushing die and bushings will more than be recovered in long case life…..
I suggest you consider the Lee C312-185-1R or the Lyman 314299. I have an original C312-185 purchased back in the ’70s. It is a single cavity is a slightly different design than the current C312-185. I got a new Lee 2 cavity C312-185 mould several months ago and it casts very good bullets. Using Lyman #2 alloy or COWWs + 2% tin they drop right at .3135. Weight sorting a batch of cast shows that both cavities cast nearly identical bullets. I seat a Hornady GC and lube those in a .314 H&I die in a Lyman 450. I load them over 30 gr milsurp IMR4895 and use a 3/4 gr Dacron filler. Accuracy has proven to be very good but in the wind at 200 and 300 yards (CBA matches) the 314299 holds up a bit better.
My Lyman 314299 was purchased about 7 – 8 years ago so it could be considered on of those “crappy Lyman moulds that won’t cast good bullets of proper diameter” as so touted by the resident guru’s on CBF. Well I must get the exceptional Lyman mould every time I buy a new one because all I have and have used cast to nominal diameter and produce very good bullets. Mine, with #2 alloy drops the bullets right at .3148 on the drive bands The noses run .303 and are concentric. Weight sorting also shows both cavities produce identical bullets. I cast a batch last week and out of 362 bullets I only had a 12.6% reject rate and the remaining bullets were within .3 gr weight. I cast for quality not quantity BTW and those rejects would probably shoot just fine for normal milsurp shooting but I get some what particular in selection for my CBA match bullets. For regular shooting in a milsurp MN with the issue sights I would only visually sort and then would not be overly anal. Actually COWWs +2% tin makes for an excellent alloy for such milsurp shooting. With the 314299 I suggest working with 28 – 30 gr 4895 and the 3/4 gr Dacron filler.
I also suggest casting with an alloy temp of 715 – 730 degrees and WQ’ing the bullet right out of the mould into cool water. It costs nothing to do this and negates the minimal 7 – 10 days before use as necessary with AC’d alloys. WQ’ing will harden either alloy and make them readily usable within 24 hours. I cast the 314299s of #2 alloy on Wednesday and weight sorted that night. I sized, GC, lubed (2500+) and loaded them on Thursday, confirmed the 100 yard zero on Friday and shot the State Match with them on Sunday.
Both bullets feed through all my MNs w/o a hitch. Also don’t hesitate to pick up any Hornady swaged 90 gr SWC .32 cal lead bullets or even the Hornady or Speer swaged HBWCs as the SWCs loaded over 3.2 gr Bullseye (2.7 for the HBWCs) makes for an excellent small game/plinking load. The Lee TL314-90-SWC is a near duplicate of the Hornady SWC if you want to cast your own.
- May 7, 2016 at 9:48 pm #27661MTtimberlineParticipant
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I have had good results for a couple years with the 314299 GC w/ White Label BAC over 28-31 gr 4895 w/ .7 gr Dacron. I give credit to Larry Gibson for suggesting this load on the other forum. I have tried I t with and without the filler and the Dacron definitely makes a noticeable difference. It has also worked well for working up a load in .30-06 for me.
- May 7, 2016 at 9:50 pm #27662MTtimberlineParticipant
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Looks like Larry was already on it.
- May 8, 2016 at 12:28 pm #27672
First of all congrats on winning the Arizona CBA Military Rifle match,I know you put much time and effort into that quest and it paid off, I really appreciate all the knowledge as well as the time taken to help me as well. I’ve already been doing most if not all the things you suggested although I NS my cases using the standard FL resizing die adjusted accordingly. It’s probably not the best way to do things but I can’t recall every throwing a case away or having a case separate. I also have a couple of the NOE neck expand that go into the Lee Universal Expander die.
It’s kinda funny but the Lee and Lyman moulds you mention are the two I have been looking at getting. After your post I think I will try the Lee out first as I have had good luck with Lee so far.I pick one up new on ebay last night cheap with free shipping,it should be here on Thursday. If that doesn’t pan out I going to buy the NOE clone of the Lyman mould but I’m just going to have confidence that the Lee mould will as I’m mainly a 100 yd. shooter around here.
I’ve never tried the 32 HBWC’s but I already have the Lee TL .314" 90 gr. SWC,you turned me onto that little bullet a year or so back and I’ve shooting it in my SKS an Mosin rifles as well as my 300 Sav. and 30-30 with excellent results. With all the free lead I have and cheap Wolf primers I’m shooting those loads cheaper than the cost of 22 rf. ammo.
It might be a few week before I can post some results as things are kinda busy around here,but I will let everyone know how things work out.
- May 13, 2016 at 11:15 pm #27793
Got my Lee .312″ 185 gr. mould this week in the mail,it looks to be a good one as everything fits nicely an the cavities look nice an clean. I plan to cast up some bullets over the weekend and see what dia. they come out at. I hoping .313″ or larger if not at least I can PC the bullets and get an extra .001″ and one of my Mosins will shoot it as is. I can always size it to .311 an shoot it in my 30 cal. US rifles as well. I also have my new NOE .314″ 155 gr. FN mould to break in as well.
- May 14, 2016 at 12:13 am #27794
reloader762;n6782 wrote: Got my Lee .312″ 185 gr. mould this week in the mail,it looks to be a good one as everything fits nicely an the cavities look nice an clean. I plan to cast up some bullets over the weekend and see what dia. they come out at. I hoping .313″ or larger if not at least I can PC the bullets and get an extra .001″ and one of my Mosins will shoot it as is. I can always size it to .311 an shoot it in my 30 cal. US rifles as well. I also have my new NOE .314″ 155 gr. FN mould to break in as well.
RL762. I’m curious, does the new mold have traditional pins, or is Lee still using the janky alignment bar technique?
- May 14, 2016 at 12:49 am #27795Rattlesnake CharlieParticipant
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Goodsteel, you have expanded my vocabulary. I did not know that word existed until now. I googled it and came up with;
(adjective) inferior quality; held in low social regard; old and delapidated; refers almost exclusively to inanimate material objects, not to people
Just goes to prove that us old dogs can learn something new.
- May 14, 2016 at 3:21 am #27797
- May 14, 2016 at 11:14 am #27798
Awesome. That is good stuff right there.
- May 14, 2016 at 2:15 pm #27802Rattlesnake CharlieParticipant
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Wow. Lee sure made a step in the right direction.
- May 14, 2016 at 6:49 pm #27806
Well some good news,just got home from my buddies house that lives down the road from me where I do all my bullet casting,the NOE and Lee moulds both made some nice bullets an I cast about 150 of each. The .312″ 185 gr. Lee mould produced identical bullet from both cavities as far as I could tell and measured .314 on both driving bands from each cavity. The NOE 155 gr. FN did just as well but bullet dropped at .315″ from it which was a bonus as well.
Lubing an applying gas check are in order and hopefully I’ll get to shoot a few next week and see how they do. I also weighed about 20 random bullets for each mould the Lee bullets weighed between 184 being the lowest and 185 being the highest out of the batch weighed with most being around 184.5 +/- a couple tenths. The NOE being a 155 gr. weighed on average 160 grs. with the lowest I tested being 159.9 grs. and the highest being 160.4 grs.
- May 14, 2016 at 8:33 pm #27808
Check out my write up in the Cast Bullet Reviews sub forum
- May 14, 2016 at 10:48 pm #27812
I hope anyone who still frequents the CBF does a “fact check” on information that is posted, especially from those such as runfiverun. His latest post regarding the velocity of the 314299 load I won the AZ state championship with is incorrect……not even close. In the CB Loads/Military Rifles forum: Congratulations are in Order thread runfiverun erroneously states in response to hut18414s question on if anyone knows the velocity of the load I used; “”that load turns in about 1925 fps from a 20″ barrel, not much more in a longer one.” Well he must have real fast 20″ barrels (probably like starmetal) because the fact is that load produces 1850 fps muzzle velocity from the 27″ barrel of the Finn M29 I used. The photo shows the last 10 shot test string (Oehler M35P with screens at 15 ft) before the match. In CBA competition you are required to provide accurate data of the load used. Seems like they could have asked me but then dealing in facts is not the forte of those running the show at CBF now. I see dtknowles continues his continual narcissistic diatribe against me. Apparently he misses starmetals rants on CBF and beyond556? However, dtknowles may have been somewhat correct in his last post; I do take exception to misstatement of facts, especially when they are so readily available. You’d think they could have just ask me but then, their own opinions are most important to them…..not facts.
Anyway, just to set the record straight the velocity of the load of IMR4895 under the 311299 runs 1844 fps instrumental as measured at 15″ from the muzzle and 1850 fps corrected to estimated muzzle velocity out the Finn M39 I used. With out the Dacron filler it runs in the 1790 fps range with a lot of vertical stringing very apparent at 200 yards.
- May 16, 2016 at 6:37 am #27857tomme boyParticipant
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Larry, have you ever got back to the ones from my mould?
- May 16, 2016 at 1:16 pm #27861
Yes, I posted some results on the Cast Bullet Review sub forum 4 days ago. I was very pleased with the results. Think you will be too!
- July 16, 2016 at 9:55 pm #28916
Was able to get out this morning and shoot my 1933 Mosin 91/30 HEX receiver rifle I had reworked a couple months back and try out the new Lee .312″ 185 gr. RN bullet I had cast up. The bullets were cast from Wheel Weights + about 2% Tin and quenched straight from the mould. The next day they were sized to .314″ in my RCBS Lube A Matic using Lars 2500+ and Gator checks.
Cases were once fired PPU brass I got at the LGS they get from the local gun range. I full length resized the case this time around and trimmed them to proper length and resized the case neck using my NOE .312″ expander plug. The throat is pretty deep on this rifle so I couldn’t seat the bullet out as far as I wanted so I seated it half way on the middle driving band for this test load. I used 19.0 grs. of Alliant 2400 and Winchester LR primers.
For this test I loaded up 25 rds. as I have installed a MOJO rear aperture sight on the rifle an the original factory post so I knew it would take a few rds. to get it on target an leave the rest to chrono and do some accuracy test. I set my target up at 50 yds. which is a far as I can shoot in the back yard range,below is the final result for today’s shooting and I had another target with the shots in the orange square area once I made the final sight adjustment but was unable to retrieve it before the weather moved in. After firing those 25 rds. the bore was nice and shiny with only a few burnt powder residue specks here and there. I’m pretty pleased with the initial results an will be trying a couple different loads in a few weeks as well as a couple more of the 2400 loads in larger increments as I have room to increase it.
- July 16, 2016 at 10:11 pm #28917
- July 17, 2016 at 1:18 am #28919
Well done indeed!!!
- July 17, 2016 at 1:53 pm #28926GhostHawkParticipant
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That is sweet!
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