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    • #23256
      Sgt. Mike
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      Hello, my name is Mo’ Chuslia I am half sisters with Bertha and Dawn. Born in 1953 as a 721 I was more slender, and prettier in my younger days like many during that time I was chambered in .30 Government (aka 30-06 Springfield). I could dance in a tight one turn in 10 inches around the floor, always had a fancy for the 168 and 175 with IMR 4895.

      Sgt. Mike found me some years ago in a pawn shop in West Virginia unloved and cast aside he told for years he would buy me a new dress and some cosmetic surgery. I waited patiently for years, he was a man of his word, like any girl in her sixties. I have gained some weight and no longer can dance that tight one turn in 10 inches it now takes me 13.5 inches to make that one turn, but never fear even if I am slower I can still spit those 175 Sierria SMK. Another advantage as a heavier girl I will not kick you like those younger girls as I’m built for comfort just like Mae West.
      Here are my recent photos

      yes the scale is correct I’m at 19 Pounds without my glasses or other accessories that a well dressed girl would have,
      Sgt. Mike seems to like a girl with some back, he told me he would love me no matter what I weight and I think my prime weight will be around 23-24 pounds. Once I get fully dressed which is in line with his duty machine gun weight that many Soldiers/Marines carries.

      I know I have little bit bigger nose at 30″ and 1.250″ in Diameter than most the younger girls. But, hey I’m sixty, and I’ve always adored Dr Mann’s accuracy profile that H.M. Pope did for him before I was born. So why should those Varmit and Palma Girls have all the fun.

      Hopefully Goodsteel and Sgt.Mike will finish my cosmetic surgery to a full bench gun to be used to evaluate cast and swaged bullets.
      As they are not done stay tuned, My owner Sgt. Mike’s employer has some plans for the both of us, but never you fret I will always be letter “A” girl, I and Mike will have to change my song to something else but we will return home after a short tour.
      Click here for my new song –> http://www.crimsontidezone.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Lynyrd-Skynyrd-Sweet-Home-Alabama-Roll-Tide-Roll-Chorus-Only-Version.mp3

      Edit to add some spec so far:
      Brux SS 1-13.5″ twist ( I would have went to a couple of inches slower twist but I wanted the ability to shoot the 175 JLK bullets). I chose the length for several reasons one to add weight to the platform, as well as to take full advantage of burning the powder. The final reason was to reduce the muzzle pressure when shooting cast.

      The Richard Micro fit Stock was originally a left hand shooter right hand action weatherby. The stock was changed to a right hand shooter as I did not want to wait the fact that the stock was less than 50.00 shipped helped a lot.
      The action was polished and reblued by Tim as well as the barrel profile which was pulled from Mann accuracy devices. It’s hard to see but the barrel has steps up and down in diameter.

      Hopefully everyone gets a kick out of the humor I probably badly attempted in the write up above.
      Tim as usual has been a true craftsman throughout this build. My biggest contribution was rubbing the stock with some sandpaper.

    • #23264
      Artful
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      So free floating the action and barrel? Interesting…
      Mounting the scope to the action or the bedding block?

    • #23265
      Sgt. Mike
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      Art the scope is planned to be attached to the block
      What is left is the SS follower the scope rail, adjusting the trigger a bit,adjustable buttplate, cleaning up, depending on the scope height might have to put a check riser in place.
      Putting three pounds of lead in the but to balance her

    • #23274
      dverna
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      The quest for accuracy is an interesting one. That certainly looks like a “gun” that will shoot. And it will be a wonderful platform to test with. Just as impressive is that someone has the ability to shoot well enough to take advantage of a gun like that. I am a “good” shot — but not good enough to do a gun like that justice. Good luck Sgt Mike. Looking forward to your journey. Don

    • #23295
      Artful
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      dverna;n1230 wrote: I am a “good” shot — but not good enough to do a gun like that justice. Good luck Sgt Mike. Looking forward to your journey. Don

      Heck, all that takes is experience/practice. You can learn a lot just by doing small bore (22LR) competition. My biggest problem is vision now – with cataract issue it makes it tough to see precisely.

    • #23304
      Goodsteel
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      Artful;n1263 wrote:

      Heck, all that takes is experience/practice. You can learn a lot just by doing small bore (22LR) competition.

      I agree. Accurate rifles are a rarity. Most people never know how much of their inaccuracy is caused by the equipment they are using. All the gun rags say factory made American guns are target grade accuracy, and base that assertion on 3 shot groups (best one out of ten I’m sure) so the average Joe public keeps thinking it’s his own fault.
      Hate to tell ya, but those fellas only get paid if they say something positive. If you simply forced every blamed one of those gun rag writers to shoot 10 shot groups, you’d quickly determine that they can’t shoot any better than you can, and if they do, it’s a marginal difference at best.
      I build custom rifles, so I had to get past this real quick. Fact is, if you are using good quality reloads with known accurate loads, if the rifle doesn’t stab all of them into less than an inch (that’s ten shots) then there is something wrong with the rifle. That same rifle with good loads and an experienced shooter will throw them all through the same ragged hole with boring regularity.

      You want to get a taste of real accuracy for a reasonable price, buy a European made rifle and give it a go.

    • #23353
      rockrat
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      I think I remember that BPCR shooters find a “dead node” in their barrels, to find a place to rest the barrel on their cross sticks. Would that be something that might be beneficial to a setup like this?
      I have an xp100 set up kind of like this, but the action is clamped and the barrel is free floating with the scope mounted on the top aluminum block.

      Interesting setup. would be easy to test different barrels/calibers

    • #23365
      Sgt. Mike
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      Yeah Rock Rat that dead node is usually close (actually 2″ or so forward ) to the barrel lug. seen it on Bolt rifles as well.
      Ever notice the bar to touch the forend in the BR game yeah most will say oh just to position the rifle the same position what they don’t say is that it’s to set that node.

      I agree with the easy to swap statement I have another 700 Mag action in 7mm Mag … put it to 300 win mag and walaa a drop in

    • #24098
      Sgt. Mike
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      Well gents,
      Played with dummy setup cartridges today to set the start COAL in prep for when this build is complete.
      1st Loads will probably be the standard Mexican Match – M72 30-06 loads ( 155/168/175 Sierria with 47.0grs of either IMR 4895 or 4064) my start COAL looks like 3.242″ for that setup.
      What I will play with is leave the charge exactly the same and play with the COAL to find the exact jump or lack of that the throat prefers first. Then if the charge warrant a shift I’ll play with that next. Depending on the budget this week I might pick up some AA4064 to play with as well. Why did I chose this load it has a history of being a very consistent load in a majority of rifles, I shot it for years in High Power.

      While I was at it I set the 165gr NOE XCB ( start is at 3.074″) which I normally use SR4759 (18-20grs) in my other ought six’s, but it’s discontinuance will warrant a search for a alternate powder. Hence is why I asked about meterablity of IMR4198 vs H4198 in a earlier thread.

      Notice the engraving this will assist the bullet to “center” in the throat (don’t get excited it’s not PC’d just marked with a sharpie in order to check the alignment and engraving )
      Once I find the exact COAL I’ll reset the Dummies to the preferred COAL for each type bullet

    • #24103
      IllinoisCoyoteHunter
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      Cool project! I will be following this thread…

    • #24108
      Paul G
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      Excellent write up Sgt. Mike, very enjoyable. A very pretty rifle to be sure.

    • #24109
      Sgt. Mike
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      Very True Art, the smaller bores including rimfire will humble a person.
      The other heavy girl in the safe is a Anshultz in full UIT dress.
      The beauty of doing a rifle way more capable than yourself is that you quickly build your skill up to the rifle in a short period with regular practice.

    • #24110
      Sgt. Mike
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      Couple of things to cover on my jacket load choice IMR 4895 and IMR 4064 are extremely close in burn rate with 4064 being a wee bit slower.
      The Sierria 155 palma (1.13) ,
      168gr SMK BTHP (1.209)
      and the 175gr SMK (1.266)
      all use the exact same jacket down to the length (the ogive differances will change the jacket length once swaged ) which is why if you can shoot one of these, with just a little bit of tweaking the others will fall right in usually with a grain or two.

      Hornady and Bergers are generally longer for the same bullet weights.

    • #24274
      Sgt. Mike
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      Stuff still to do on the List:

      Sitting here after rubbing some more Tru-oil onto the finish to recoat after a sanding session from heck, where Tim had to mill the bottom of the stock.
      To allow the trigger to hang properly and mill the trigger guard area in.

      Thinking hmm I have heard from old time handloaders say, never mix your brass from cast and jacketed load to keep them separate.
      Wondering if I should order some new Lapua brass for Mo. After all that LC National Match brass I have on hand can’t last forever. Just so expensive like many things in life oh well.
      I will need some more 155’s as well later on too.

      First things first though
      1. Single Shot followers
      Trying to finalize / deciding between a Score High (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/321…ength-aluminum) the price is right but the “slips in and no gunsmithing” has me concerned, but cheap is not always best.
      Goodsteel and I discussed “gluing” the follower in.
      I suspect that this one from PTG will fit the Bill to a Tee, even if it cost a little bit more might be more cost effective in the long run (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/462…00-long-action) (http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/-misc-remington-parts/317-long-action-la-benchrest-single-shot-follower-for-adl-bdl-inlets.html?search_query=follower&results=40).

      2. Scope base I think that 9″ should be enough (http://www.brownells.com/optics-moun…-prod9851.aspx)

      3. Screw the trigger guard to the stock once the finish is complete, weight the butt, install adjustable butt plate.

      4. Accessory Rail (aka T-Rail) (http://www.champchoice.com/store/Mai…ions&item=CC14) can be done later after the follower and Scope base
      5. Hand stop (http://www.champchoice.com/store/Mai…ns&item=CC3535) … Later

    • #24280
      chutesnreloads
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      A nice rifle coming along…..Glad I’M not tho one has to lug it around hunting though :p

    • #24282
      Sgt. Mike
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      Its a light weight only 19 pounds right now LMAO

    • #24292
      chutesnreloads
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      And I had no problem humping an M60 over hill and dale either………over 30 years ago……don’t seem to need to carry that much ammo these days either

    • #24301
      Sgt. Mike
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      LOL even in my fifties I wind up humpin the pig’s replacement the m240b and it ain’t no lighter LMAO

    • #24943
      Screwbolts
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      Sgt. Mike;n2233 wrote: Well gents,
      Played with dummy setup cartridges today to set the start COAL in prep for when this build is complete.
      1st Loads will probably be the standard Mexican Match – M72 30-06 loads ( 155/168/175 Sierria with 47.0grs of either IMR 4895 or 4064) my start COAL looks like 3.242″ for that setup.
      What I will play with is leave the charge exactly the same and play with the COAL to find the exact jump or lack of that the throat prefers first. Then if the charge warrant a shift I’ll play with that next. Depending on the budget this week I might pick up some AA4064 to play with as well. Why did I chose this load it has a history of being a very consistent load in a majority of rifles, I shot it for years in High Power.

      While I was at it I set the 165gr NOE XCB ( start is at 3.074″) which I normally use SR4759 (18-20grs) in my other ought six’s, but it’s discontinuance will warrant a search for a alternate powder. Hence is why I asked about meterablity of IMR4198 vs H4198 in a earlier thread.

      Notice the engraving this will assist the bullet to “center” in the throat (don’t get excited it’s not PC’d just marked with a sharpie in order to check the alignment and engraving )
      Once I find the exact COAL I’ll reset the Dummies to the preferred COAL for each type bullet

      Hi Sgt Mike,

      If you can find some Re7, take a look at that as well as your planed 4198s. I have run a fair amount of 4198 and Re7 behind cast in the 06s and have started to lean heavily to the Re7.

      Ken/Screwbolts

    • #24947
      Sgt. Mike
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      Ken,
      just picked up some AA 4064 for the meterability factor, with jacketed loads the burn rate between 4895 and 4064 is nominal and should be ok. Later plan to pick up some AA 4350.
      On the RL7 I think I have some in the cabinet to throw into that mix, I know I have RL15. Thank you for the suggestion on RL7 I will give it a look see

    • #24951
      Screwbolts
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      Forgot to add, Nice rifle you and Tim are building!

      IMHO, That RL15 will fit right in there with your 4064s, with the jacketed stuff.

      I find that the RL17 fits right in with the 4350s, My son’s 6mm prefers the RL17 over both the IMR or AA 4350s.

      Good stuff,

      Ken

    • #24975
      Sgt. Mike
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      Ken,
      My 6mm Remington (722 twelve twist) seems to prefer H414 or IMR 8208XBR is the real close second with the 68/70 grainers.

      Thank you for the compliment

    • #25018
      onceabull
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      “buy a European rifle and give it a go”..Now that certainly starts the juices flowing here…BECAUSE I have a least two such..But have to wonder if it will apply..Here’s why..#1 is a “monarch” grade Mauser 66 in 243 W,#2 Is a Anschutz 7×64 Made in that brief period when that firm & Savage had a “working agreement”,so it’s really a savage action complete with barrel nut…So,do you think these two sporters are likely to be an improvement over an off the shelf Rem.700,Ruger 77, Win.New Model 70… ??Onceabull

    • #25046
      Larry Gibson
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      Sgt. Mike

      Are you going to get any testing done before the move?

      Larry Gibson

    • #25072
      Sgt. Mike
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      Don’t know if I’ll make the time line Larry the first week of June is awful close, But then again, maybe. The fact that I’m not taking Momma and the Kids it make it easier.
      Checked the Dallas Ft worth area several good places popped up some private some public.

    • #25100
      Artful
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      Had a friend order in Lapua brass – I was not impressed – dented necks – weight wasn’t consistent – He called them on it – they shipped another box of brass – it was better than the first but still dented necks.

    • #25577
      lmcollins
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      Not trying to throw rocks, but if you check your references: I think that you will find that the 30 cal Government was the 30-40 Krag. The next two 30 cal rounds in the US arsenal were the 30-03, which soon was turned into the 30-06.

      Say, what is your branch of service? The guy’s ears in the picture remind me of the ears of the my second First Sgt while stationed at Seymour Johnson AFB, NC, in about 1970.

    • #25580
      Goodsteel
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      Good to see you Lynn! Thanks for signing up!

    • #25591
      Sgt. Mike
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      lmcollins;n3970 wrote: Not trying to throw rocks, but if you check your references: I think that you will find that the 30 cal Government was the 30-40 Krag. The next two 30 cal rounds in the US arsenal were the 30-03, which soon was turned into the 30-06.

      Say, what is your branch of service? The guy’s ears in the picture remind me of the ears of the my second First Sgt while stationed at Seymour Johnson AFB, NC, in about 1970.

      LOL, Imcollins my branch is Army.

      The 30-40 Krag was the 30 Army ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-40_Krag ), The 30-03/30-06 is the 30 Government. The moniker of 30 Government was applied to the 1906 version of the cartridge by Winchester (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-06_Springfield).

      A little bit of research will yeild that the 1-10 twist was set up for the 30-03 cartridge not the 30-6 which needed a slower twist, The faster twist was retained only because the rifle have been in production for 3 years and while not as accurate as the proper twist (1-12 ish) was accurate enough to not have to rebarrel thousands of actions and retool the arsenals to produce the correct twist. The reason that 30-06 is twisted at 1-10 is only based on the fact is that it’s always been done that way.

    • #25594
      Larry Gibson
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      The Ordnance Department corrected the 30 caliber barrel twist with the 7.62 NATO in the M14 rifle and M60 machine guns. The 12″ twist was found to be more accurate and better suited to the 145 – 155 gr NATO spec ball bullets yet still stabilized the longer AP and tracer bullets. It was also found to give an accuracy edge with the M72 174 gr match/M1 bullet over the M1 in 30-06 with a 10″ twist, especially at 600 – 1000 yards. The increased accuracy of the M14 with a 12″ twist vs the M1 with 10″ twist was one of the primary driving force behind the change from the 5V target to the Decimal target used in NMC matches. There were just too many “cleans” being shot on the 5V target with the M14s. I suspect another change in the decimal target is due with the dominancy of the AR/M16 in NMC competition today. With most “match” AR/M16 rifles tricked out and weighing 14+ pounds, having replaced match triggers, excellent and very accurate match barrels, excellent match quality bullets and now the rules allowing the use of a 4X optic for a “Service Rifle” I imagine we will see a tightening of the scoring rings.

      Larry Gibson

    • #28714
      Sgt. Mike
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      Ok Finally fired Mo’Chuslia today
      This was supposed to be a turn key way to shoot HV with cast I twisted a little faster than Larry or Bjorn because I still wanted to be stable with 175gr Jacketed loads in the 30-06.
      SR 4759 Load

    • #28715
      Sgt. Mike
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      Imr 4227 at 19 grs

      IMR 4227 at 20grs

      Now this are Normal loads that most will get with a tens twist Time to kick it up a notch

    • #28716
      Sgt. Mike
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      H414 at 49grs

      H414 at 51grs

    • #28717
      Sgt. Mike
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      But really what is the accuracy potential of this “slow” twist rifle??

      I recorded the bullet weight incorrectly that is the 150gr SMK Match not the 155grs Palma bullet

      the caliper read .552″ for 5 shots outside to outside

      I suspect the Fast twist “ohh there is so much better” crew need to understand once the rifle was done I just assembled Loads some from Bjorn’s and Larry’s earlier trials I merely duplicate their loads with a Slower than 1-10″ twist for cast all except the SR 4759 load was 5 shots eact the SR 4759 was 15 rounds. I swabbed the bore with Kroil and jag/patch between each shot, as the barrel was in “break-in”.
      I did not spend 2 years frustrated laminating over lube alloys or other factors I just did what I set out to do. Done finish I hit the Objective I want over 2700fps with less than 50 rounds expended and did so without worrying about coating the bore with lube.
      I will say I did several things different (barrel break-in) But I will let Goodsteel explain them I explained it to him to a tee he scoped the rifle after this procedure each load was shot Several times to validate repeatability.

    • #28719
      Sgt. Mike
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      Tim did a outstanding job with this rifle while he and I worked on it don’t be fooled it was predominately Tim’s efforts on this rifle.
      I did do some such as adjust the trigger pull on the factory Mike Walker designed trigger put tru-oil on the stock
      I would highly recommend his services if you desire better than medicore accuracy.
      While this was a long project one has to bear in mind this was only done on sundays between his other jobs my working weekends his schedule and my schedule. In reality it came to gether quickly but still not completed.
      While I razzed Tim at his house earlier I am really happy with the way this rifle turned out.

      Another note I did not tell Tim was the alum block acted as a heat sink it would warm up quicker than the barrel then cool off quicker than the barrel which actually kept the throat and chamber cooler than normal.

    • #28720
      Wright Arms
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      I wait for a description of this barrel break in procedure with much anticipation. I have had a sneak peak with Tim in a conversation or 2. Can’t wait to read the whole story.

      Forgot my manners. Well done, Sir! VERY well done.

    • #28723
      Sgt. Mike
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      Actually that was all rifle there, the way it was built, twist rate selection all based on clear and certain objectives for the rifle Darrin,
      But thank you for the kind words.
      I was just the loose nut behind the trigger.
      Like I said earlier Loads…… heck I copied from Bjorn and Larry Both shot the same EXACT loads earlier in the project. They did all the work I just observed and paid attention to what both had to offer.
      Jacketed heck the 30 caliber is boring predictable and repeatable so I used Known good “mexican” match loads that copied the National Match ammo issued for years.
      the 150 to 175 gr bullets with 47ish grs of 4064/4895 is a winning load.

      Tim and I was discussing the barrel contour which might have had a issue or two to play in here.
      As we discussed the contour at length (probably over two months) and was excited to cut it a certain way.
      Like I said earlier the performance was all Tim’s Abilities as he Cut the camber, profiled the barrel, cut and mated the Barrel Block, inletted the stock to float with the mill. assisted with the chain saw to convert the stock from left hand to right hand. ( yes the chain saw is a joke)

    • #28724
      Wright Arms
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      Would all of you whom have shot 3 or more groups below .590″ for 5 shots outside edge to outside edge with a .30 barrel please stand up and raise your right hand?

      Loose nut by back side!

    • #28725
      Goodsteel
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      She’s a well built rifle Sarge, and you’re the finest marksman I’ve ever shook hands with.
      I built her to your exact specifications, and she performed exactly as you said she would.
      The things I have learned this year from you and Larry about barrel maintenance and care are now a part of my normal rifle building procedure.
      Well done sir! Well done indeed. It’s an honor to have worked with you on this project.
      As soon as I get the shop put back together, well finish up the final details.

    • #28726
      Sgt. Mike
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      Darrin fact brother man … fact …
      its a mental game don’t worry about doing it don’t worry about nothing don’t push it focus on the sight all the way through…. the front sight is the only thing…… example the first string of the H414 load at 51grs went over two inches by the third shot… realised it was me … tore the target down reshot it twice and held under the .600″ outside to outside on both , I just then focused on the 1/8″ dot in that Redfield 10X scope and fired then swabing the bore between each shot which should have not held what it did.

      One should only be in competition with themselves at any time…. object is to shoot a little bit tighter every time after the last shot. Don’t worry about the other nut on the next bench only worry about that front sight or little bitty dot that is the only thing you control in your world.

      Thank you Tim on the marksmanship but I will argue that ANY given day Bjorn Larry or several of the board members and I do mean any here can wipe me off the charts. Point in case Doc Highwall really anybody pay attention heck he is shooting a 22LR Anschultz at 100yds one target outta thirty he only dropped 3 points, another dropped only one point outta 30 shots. another he wipped clean for 30 shots x 10 points each, heck that is shooting this all prone and offhand i was using a bench and shot way less number of shots.

      If I recall correctly seems like you outshot me a time or two, I know Lars did at least one time with his lever gun ( btw loved that thing a beauty)

      Like I said that was all your talents don’t short change yourself you had quite a bit of input LOL several things I left up to you and you did a fine job with her again DON’T SORT CHANGE yourself that is kinda like wearing Croc’s where there is broken glass.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    • #28727
      Wright Arms
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      It is an elite, though not impossible club. Perhaps I will belong one day. But today is not that day.

      Well done, Gents. Well done.

    • #28728
      Sgt. Mike
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      Here is the thing Darrin focus on the front sight ………don’t worry about where that shot went………quit chasing that last bullet . when you place that front sight ( or crosshairs) at the same spot everytime and hold tight your groups will tighten up when you chase that last bullet you doubt yourself and create inaccuracies focus on the front sight (crosshairs) let the groups handle them selves and they will everytime be tighter than the last pay attention what was the last thing you seen when the shot broke that is where it went.

      I know for a fact Larry and Bjorn will back this little bit o advice up when they get a chance to type or see this.

      My point in posting this is proof to what several of the Fine gents I chat with on regular basis have been saying about the 30 XCB it can be a turn key provided that clear objectives are established. Fact is Tim does great work and is a craftsman as well as a good friend. This project would be nowhere without his assistance time and efforts. While I will rib him unmercifully in private ,I have the highest regard for him…….. hopefully he does not read this his head might get big ……LMAO.

    • #28733
      Scharfschuetze
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      Wow! Nice shooting 721.

      In the early 80s, I built up a 308 calibre National Match rifle on a 721 that I bought for twenty dollars. That was a real shooter and I won several local and state level matches with it including a Palma match. Unfortunately, the rapid fire stages of the NM wore out the primary extraction cam on the bolt handle and the rifle is now too jerky to shoot NM competition with anymore. Naturally the barrel is missing almost a 1/4 inch or more of throat also, but believe it or not, it will still shoot 168 grain MKs into almost 1 MOA 10 shot groups after at least 8,000 rounds through the barrel.

    • #28734
      Sgt. Mike
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      Outstanding shooting Scharfschuetze, I was waiting for you (hoping more like it ) to show up and kick in hehe.
      TR&R range the mirage must been brutal if it was summer, It was kicking a little bit yesterday, but nothing that could not be shot through.
      I was lazy yesterday and only shot 5 shot groups ,,, two more cleanings before going back to the range.

      PTG is making the 721 bolt Bodies with different extractors that can be sized exactly to the receivers for a nice snug fit.

      The Winchester is a good rifle even though I usually pick on the owners of them on occasion in good natured fun of course.

      I need to get the super high rings for the Leopold Std bases the High are almost too low, the Redfield 10X Varmint was the only scope I could mount without the objective touching the bedding block.

    • #28740
      skeettx
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      Here is my Old Faithful 721 in 30-06 and a Texas fork horn

    • #28743
      Scharfschuetze
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      NIce fork horn Mule deer! That must be in West Texas. My Hill Country (Central Texas) hunting in Texas only produced rather small White Tail deer.

      I always preferred the looks of the plain, but purposeful 721 and 722 to the glossy and fancy Model 700s that replaced them.

      “The Winchester is a good rifle even though I usually pick on the owners of them on occasion in good natured fun of course.”

      Yes, I think that I’ve had that conversation with a few guys over the years! 🙂

    • #28775
      Sgt. Mike
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      Scharfschuetze;n7937 wrote: Wow! Nice shooting 721.

      In the early 80s, I built up a 308 calibre National Match rifle on a 721 that I bought for twenty dollars. That was a real shooter and I won several local and state level matches with it including a Palma match. Unfortunately, the rapid fire stages of the NM wore out the primary extraction cam on the bolt handle and the rifle is now too jerky to shoot NM competition with anymore. Naturally the barrel is missing almost a 1/4 inch or more of throat also, but believe it or not, it will still shoot 168 grain MKs into almost 1 MOA 10 shot groups after at least 8,000 rounds through the barrel.

      Yep heard Larry brag about that 721 of yours a coupla times Scharfschuetze. I do not recall stories of other shooters/owners about those models them and the 722 seem to be pretty well made. Not as nice as a Winchester of that period but usually the utilitarian 721/722 shot with or better than the Winchesters, or at least that was the claim of the day.

      After the FTX that I have coming up soon, I’ll need to shoot some of the 155 Palmas next, and some more of the 30XCB bullets, just have to look over Larry’s and Bjorns shooting of the Leveroution powder to see if I can duplicate or break even with their progress on demand. Hopefully I’ll have the Super High STD rings as the High are kind of low for the bedding block it works in a rush but the extra .100 of a inch will help on the clearance of the scope and bedding block.

    • #29375
      Sgt. Mike
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      IMR 8208XBR 40.6grs / H414 46.0grs /4064 45grs =165gr bullet

      28 August
      Load 1: 46 grs H414 30xcb Lube 2400+ sized .310″ COAL 3.065″ qty 20
      Load 2: 48 grs H414 30 XCB Lube 2400+ sized .310″ COAL 3.065″ qty 20
      Load 3: 46 grs H414 30 XCB Lube 2700+ sized .310″ COAL 3.065″ qty 20
      Load 4: 48 grs H414 30 XCB Lube 2700+ sized .310″ COAL 3.065″ qty 20
      Load 5: 20 grs IMR4227 30 XCB lube 2700+ sized .310″ COAL 3.065″ qty 40

      14 September
      Load 6: 20 grs IMR 4227 30 XCB lube 2700+ sized .309 COAL 3.065 qty 40

      earlier I shot some 51 grs of H414 I just wanted to see if accuracy would improve with a reduced load of 46 and 48 grs.
      I want to try some IMR 8208XBR, as such I’ll need to round up a pound for the next bout of testing.

      Probably need to get Tim to let me fire a couple over his chronograph seeing how mine is inop (aka shot, just never got around to picking up another)

    • #29376
      Sgt. Mike
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      IMR 8208XBR 40.6grs / H414 46.0grs /4064 45grs =165gr bullet

      28 August
      Load 1: 46 grs H414 30xcb Lube 2400+ sized .310″ COAL 3.065″ qty 20
      Load 2: 48 grs H414 30 XCB Lube 2400+ sized .310″ COAL 3.065″ qty 20
      Load 3: 46 grs H414 30 XCB Lube 2700+ sized .310″ COAL 3.065″ qty 20
      Load 4: 48 grs H414 30 XCB Lube 2700+ sized .310″ COAL 3.065″ qty 20
      Load 5: 20 grs IMR4227 30 XCB lube 2700+ sized .310″ COAL 3.065″ qty 40

      14 September
      Load 6: 20 grs IMR 4227 30 XCB lube 2700+ sized .309 COAL 3.065 qty 40

      earlier I shot some 51 grs of H414 I just wanted to see if accuracy would improve with a reduced load of 46 and 48 grs.
      I want to try some IMR 8208XBR, as such I’ll need to round up a pound for the next bout of testing.

      Probably need to get Tim to let me fire a couple over his chronograph seeing how mine is inop (aka shot, just never got around to picking up another)

      A lámh in aghaidh gach duine, agus gach duine ar láimh ina choinne
      (“His hand against everyone, And everyone’s hand against him”) If you understand this, then you understand why the conflict of Islam for it was told to Hagar

    • #29385
      Sgt. Mike
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      I at least I think it was your 721..LOL

    • #30094
      Sgt. Mike
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      Fired Loads 5 and 6 today
      first groups (30 shots each group) was 100 yards
      load was 20 grs of IMR4227 bullet sized .310 lube lars45 2700+ lube ( important to note the first ten shots tore a .350 inch hole outside to outside, the 12 and 14 produced the flyers the remaining filled in the cone)

      Now lets looks at the same load just bullet sized to .309 ( first ten tore a .300 inch hole outside to outside) again 30 rounds group

      I concluded that this was just too hard to call so I moved the target to two hundred yards.

    • #30097
      Sgt. Mike
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      let’s look at the 200 yards results.
      here is the .310 sized bullet if you recall tore a .350 before opening up here are the results at 200 yards.

      here is the .309 that tore a .300 inch groups for the first ten let’s see what 200 yards does.

      NOW if I relied on the prediction of my 10 shot groups which SHOULD have produced something around .600 to .700 at double the distance (100vs 200 yards) .
      Hence is why I say develop loads at the range you intend to shoot as IF I had 20 more shot the cone of fire at 200 would have increased more that it did.

      I could have saved resources ( 20 grs of powder x 60 shots = 120 grs, 60 primers) if I had just fired at 200 yards, the 100 yard feedback was a waste. Oh well it was fun LOL
      But based on the 200 yard feed back the .309 sizing seems so far to be a clear winner, at what I consider a 1-1/8 MOA capable rifle with THIS load, she will respond better if I do more load development. You are seeing ALL the flyers here on the 100 and 200 yard targets I did not discount any as every shot felt right.

      Each components was carefully inspected, necks turned ( .001 neck tension on the .309, 002 on the .310), brass trimmed to the exact length, bullets precisely seated, powder was trickled to the exact weight, each bullet was visually inspected prior to sizing and then again after, the last lube groove next to the gas check was omitted lube, I wanted to allow a place for excess lube to collect to before being collected by the gas check. I am shooting a Palma bore which is tighter than the normal 30 caliber. and Yes I did index the rounds.

    • #30101
      Sgt. Mike
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      I need to work on the optics mounting (higher rings to work around the barrel block, then maybe shimming the base for a correct LOS) and probably put a different scope before her next outing

    • #30108
      Sgt. Mike
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      Still have the following loads to try:
      28 August
      Load 1: 46 grs H414 30xcb Lube 2400+ sized .310″ COAL 3.065″ qty 20
      Load 2: 48 grs H414 30 XCB Lube 2400+ sized .310″ COAL 3.065″ qty 20
      Load 3: 46 grs H414 30 XCB Lube 2700+ sized .310″ COAL 3.065″ qty 20
      Load 4: 48 grs H414 30 XCB Lube 2700+ sized .310″ COAL 3.065″ qty 20

      Will need to do a work up loads with IMR 8208XBR in the future as well as RL7 as was pointed out earlier.

      Now, I need to prep my fired brass into primed ready cases, after firing today (results on page three).

    • #30111
      Goodsteel
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      Brilliant shooting Sarge. You’ve got more savvy in your trigger finger than Churchill had between his ears.
      Too bad there’s no cast bullet matches around here, but I think you’d be hard pressed to find much competition to shooting like that.
      Well done!!!!

    • #30120
      Sgt. Mike
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      Thank you Tim but I learned a long time ago on any given day there is somebody out there with a better skill set, and there are better marksman than me. I try not to take myself too serious as this is supposed to be fun even though shooters are usually very opinionated. I’m guilty I know. But moving on as I have this fantastic test bed that you built to play with.

      Claude was kind enough to give me a Lyman .309 sizer , I greatly thank him for doing what he did. Which led to this test, some will scoff but I did this for a reason (visual differences to the throat/bore area in selecting sizing).

      After I play with the base to angle her in from LOS (scope centered in the reticle) to POA of bore. Even though I hate too I might have to have Tim scallop the front barrel block for the scope objective. Just have to play with her a bit before the next outing, need to check the 10x Redfield that I currently have on her.

      The next area I want to take off into is using IMR 8208XBR powder, which will be after firing the loads listed above.
      I’m thinking that I should use 27grs as the start point just need to augment my existing supply of powder (the 6mm Rem likes this powder as well as the H414)
      (yes XBR is faster than 4895, which I generally try to keep plenty of ). Larry swears by the 4895, which he is usually spot on in his recommendations no argument from me. I am just curious as to how XBR will stack up against 4895. What I don’t know is if Dacron will be actually need with the XBR.

    • #30135
      Menner
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      Nice shooting Mike! Mo’ Chuslia likes to dance seems you have been whispering sweet nothings in her ear
      Tony

    • #30137
      Sgt. Mike
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      Thank you Tony, pretty much the rifle and Tim’s ability on that build.

      What I did notice is that given enough shots those flier or out layers filled in. In a NRA Highpower match I’d take those 30 shot groups any day.

      As a side note more so as a note to myself as I forget stuff too much these days, like what I was planning to do or, where I placed my top punches. My intent is to update progress within this thread on that rifle and it’s loads within this thread and use it as a notebook in hopes it aids me as well as others.

      Based on conversation with Bjorn and Larry setup a test on AA4831SC at 46-48grs start. I’ll have to locate some which I’m pretty sure where to pick up a pound without ordering, if I can’t find any, I’ll probably sub AA4350 to see how the 13.5 twist reacts.

      After that last outing only took four patches on a jag (with kroil) to clean the bore after a basically 80 round outing.

    • #30138
      Goodsteel
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      Sgt. Mike;n9797 wrote:
      After that last outing only took four patches on a jag (with kroil) to clean the bore after a basically 80 round outing.

      Duly noted.

    • #30142
      Sgt. Mike
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      Just a update what many on here cept Tim, Larry, and Bjorn do not know is that right before the last range session Mo Chuslia fell on her scope a early Redfield 10X Varmint .

      Well weighing 21 pounds without the scope it bent the scope by a 1/8 of a inch in the tube. At the public range I wound up shimming the front ring just to get her on paper as I had maxed out the elevation. I think I had like three threads holding as I shimmed like 0.060 on the front which is quite a bit. As ya’ll can surmise I really wanted to do the test on the bullet sizing difference with the Palma bore.

      Tonight Tim was kind enough to work his tail off to wire in the mill, (BTW look longer to reset the Mill for level etc than to wire it) so he could alter the barrel bedding block (scalloping) to allow for a different scope for clearance at the objective. Tim did not think it would affect the way she is shooting, I’m normally a sceptical person so we will see, he is probably right.

      I actually we mounted one of my 3-9 Leupold’s until I can locate a suitable fixed power ( sorry just prefer the fixed powers they are simple, I will miss the 1/8 target dot).
      Tim suggested a scope that I find intriguing a SWFA SS, now to scrape my pennies together LOL, as it met what I was looking for. But there is not much flies on a Leupold and I can live with a duplex reticle. Now to get ready for the next outing. I’m grateful that Tim took the time out to help with this.

    • #30147
      Goodsteel
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      Ah heck Sarge. It was Sunday. There’s only two things that really feel right on Sunday:
      Just sitting watching clouds go by, prayin and such
      or
      tinkering on a rifle with a friend.
      I enjoyed myself a lot, and it was good to get the mill spinning again. Thanks for the ride to Bates to get oil, and thanks for being patient while I cleaned the mill and stoned the table and got her trammed in perfectly again.
      Sure was good to make chips in the new shop!

    • #30183
      Sgt. Mike
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      Next outing………
      Fouler loads 20 grs IMR 4227 (highpower standard 2 each) for each ladder test

      IMR 4227 17grs to 28grs on ladder test (22 rounds 1/2 gr increment . again 310 and .309 dia total 44 rounds).
      Clean bore….. evaluate results. ………………… Go to accuracy load and play with C.O.A.L to validate current C.O.A.L
      Clean bore….. two foulers.
      4895 start at 35grs w/ dacron to 50 grs on ladder test. (15 rounds in .310 dia and .309 dia each total 30 rounds) ( ladder in 1 gr increment)
      Clean bore….. evaluate results. Go to accuracy load work up from there to 4MOA.

      4064 start at 35grs w/ dacron to 50 grs on ladder test. (15 rounds in .310 dia and .309 dia each total 30 rounds) ( ladder in 1 gr increment)
      Clean bore….. evaluate results. Go to accuracy load work up from there to 4MOA.

    • #30217
      Sgt. Mike
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      Well this week is size and prep brass, cast some more although I have plenty for testing just need to add more to the bottom of the bin.

      After Larry’s and my conversation need to patch (clean) Mo Chuslia again prepping for the next outting, While I’m doing that I need to do the other two Remingtons (722 in 6mm Rem, and the 700 in 7mm Mag).
      Thinking of that I think Mike (my Son), used my 7mm Mag without cleaning it. The bugger.
      Some reason he does not like to clean guns he borrows, his Browning yeah different story.

      Have not seen AA4831SC locally so I’ll sub AA4350.

      I’m thinking that I need to Ladder test several powders on the next outting to see where it shows any nodes.

      October 6th:
      well re-zeroed the 7mm Mag in from the great scope swap the load was 60 gs of IMR4350 over a 140gr FB netted me about 2785fps.
      Finished resizing and polishing, now to prime the cases and bell the mouths in prep for loading.

    • #30563
      Sgt. Mike
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      Fired the first ladder test for the AA 4350 with the 30 XCB, best accuracy (node) seemed to be at the 50ish grain area.
      The Chrono results using the magnospeed that Bjorn was kind enough to send to me:
      46.0 grs = 2476
      47.0 grs = 2556
      48.0 grs = 2576
      49.0 grs = 2587
      50.0 grs = 2703
      51.0 grs = 2742
      52.0 grs = 2776
      53.0 grs = 2799
      54.0 grs = 2894
      55.0 grs = 2934

      I’ll reshoot the results to ensure that what I thought I saw was reality.

      i also fired some H414 at 46 grs showed promise need a bit more work ( ten shots was around 3 MOA outside to to utside) the chrono results was:
      min 2519
      avg 2590
      max 2621
      SD was 27.6

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