This topic contains 7 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Rattlesnake Charlie 2 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • #49935
     JHSFun 
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    Well I do not  need another rifle at this time but was wondering ( have 5 different 308 , 1 -30-30) and others

    Question is a bout Marlin 336 RC in 35 Remington there is one will used near me and one at the lgs used  with box so near mint

    How much can you hot rod the Marlin 336 RC in 35 Remington

    or

    Can you ream it out to 358 winchester. .. i know the bolt face .004 bigger..

    All ways wanted the 358 and the 35 rem has the better twist for cast.

  • #49937
     Glenn 
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    I have seen the Marlin chambered in 356 Win, so what’s the pressure difference between the two?

    I looked through Quickload for pressures and dimensions.  Maybe someone can look up the sami pressures?

    35 Rem 39.9kpsi,  base .460″, max coal 2.525″

    356 Win 52kpsi,  base .506″, max coal 2.555″

    358Win 58kpsi, base .473″, max coal 2.780″

    30-30 base .506″

    I wonder if you could get a 30-30 bolt and rechamber for 356Win?

    I don’t have a Marlin lever gun, so I’m not sure what the bolt face looks like, or if it would need replaced?  Or just the extractor??

    You mentioned hot rodding the 35 Rem.  If they have chambered the same rifle in 356 Win with a max pressure of 52kpsi, then would it be safe to run the 35 Rem at that pressure in the Marlin 336?

    Quickload says that with a 20″ barrel and way too much H335, should give 2471fps @ 52kpsi for a 200gn Hornady SPRN.

    The same bullet and powder in the 356Win gives 2496fps @ 52kpsi

    I wonder what the magic LeverRevolution powder could do in the 35 Rem?

    Just some random thoughts, not sure if any of this would correlate to the actual world.

  • #49938
     JHSFun 
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    Thanks Glenn for the reply

    I have done about a hour reading on the internet

    the short answer is …….if Marlin could have made it in 308 or 358 they could have sold LOTS .. and they did not make them so there must be a reason.

    Next question the base of 308 brass is app. 0.010 smaller than 35 rem

    can / has any one made 35 rem brass from 308 brass and fire formed it.

  • #49940
     Glenn 
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    I think that you’ve got it the other way around.

    .308 base is .473

    35 Rem base is .460

    .308 is larger by about .013…

    There was a guy on CB that was selling .308 converted to 35 Rem.

    I tried making some .358 Win x 1.75″ and just used a Lee bullet sizing push rod to stuff a cut down .308 case, with lots of imperial sizing die wax, into a .358 die, then used a punch and hammer to get it back out.

    So it seems that it should be fairly easy to do.

  • #49948
     Artful 
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    I’d say you could probably +P your 35 Remington loads – but I always worry about them falling into the wrong hands or getting used in a 35 Remington auto loader or older steel gun.  Generally it’s just not good practice.  Converting to 356 which is a jump of 25% in pressure is more of an issue to find out if there is much difference in the actual frame/bolt of the guns marlin sold – like 38 spl and 357 are the same frame and cylinder but different heat treatments/steels.

    As to 358 win conversion – I’d say no – I’d look for a used Savage 99, Winchester 88, Sako FinnWolf to rebore/rebarrel

    or just buy a Browning BLR in 358.

     

     

  • #49954
     Rattlesnake Charlie 
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    A Browning BLR in .358 would be very nice.

    Is the twist in them conducive to cast?

    BTW, the .35 Remington is very pleasant to shoot. You will notice the difference if you crank up the .358 Winchester. Do you really need that much more on both ends?

  • #49960
     Goodsteel 
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    The reason you have to be careful hot rodding anything in the Marlin lever actions is simple: You don’t have enough steel surrounding the chamber to support that kind of pressure.

    Contrary to common internet wisdom, the receiver has nothing to do with containing radial pressure and is responsible for arresting bolt thrust ONLY.

    The bolt thrust per cartridge varies, but one thing is certain: it’s a dam sight less than radial pressure on the barrel across the board.

    I can tell you with absolute cheerful certainty that the receiver of the Marlin 336 can easily handle anything the 308 or 358 can dish out.

    BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT…………

    The barrel CANNOT.

    Understanding the strength of the barrel means taking into account the things you cannot see, and understanding how metal fatigues and fails.

    The first, and most important thing to understand is that regardless of the size of the barrel you can see, the barrel is only as strong as it’s weakest point, and the threads are the smallest diameter located over the chamber of the gun which is where the lions share of the pressure takes place. Barrels are tapered because once you get 4″ away from the chamber, pressure begins to bleed off quickly (as anyone can see evidenced on Larry Gibson’s pressure traces). The fact is, that every inch the bullet travels effectively increases your expansion chamber. However, the first 3-4″ of the barrel are going to take the full pressure of the cartridge and there is no escaping that.

    Knowing that, the minor thread diameter of the Marlin 336 is one of the smallest (if not THE smallest) tenon in production today. It’s perfectly suited to handling the pressure of a +p 30-30 cartridge, but if you throw in a larger cartridge, the wall gets thinner, and the pressure goes up because of what that cartridge is and how it is loaded. You could get away with it if you kept the loads tame, but all it takes is one poor sucker who does not understand what I wrote above (and very few do) and you’ve got yourself a dangerous situation.

    You have to think about it like a revolver cylinder wall. It can only take so much pressure, and that cylinder gap helps a lot with an added safety margin which you do not have in a rifle.

    I’m sure the 35 Remington, the 308 ME and the 338 ME and 45-70 make Marlin really really nervous, and I’m sure that what I am talking about above is one of the reasons they have let the Marlin Express line quietly die of natural causes. I’m sure it helped them float for another year or two under the JM stamp, but make no mistake, those cartridges are on the ragged edge, which is why it’s hard to get them. The 45-70 is a bit of a goofball, but they have the advantage of an big barrel to let the pressure off quickly on that cartridge. Even still, the 1895 will not tolerate much of an over load, and I’ve seen dozens of them cut in half by reloading mistakes. Compared to a bolt action, you can knock the Marlin and Henry lever actions over with a feather.

    The next strongest is the 1886 pattern rifles, then the 1895 Winchester rifles (which hide a barrel tenon nearly as large as a Ruger #1!!!)

    The point is, I highly recommend you take care not to overload the 336 or 1895 rifles in any way. Published book loads are fine, even up to maximum, but going over maximum is a fruitless venture that may put you in dangerous territory pressure wise.

  • #49970
     Rattlesnake Charlie 
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    I have often contemplated just how they think the 1895 Marlin can handle the loads in the #2 range of reloading manuals. It apparently does. Sure ain’t much steel there. IMHO, with my 1895 Marlin Cowboy in .45-70, I have decided that going above the top end Trapdoor loads is not fun on my end.

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