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    • #31865
      kens
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      I have read many articles saying that receiver peep sights such as our M1A, M1Garand, are great and fast on target such as woodland deer hunting.
      I have read many articles saying that scout scope setup is great and fast on target such as woodland deer hunting.
      I have not yet hunted with either one, and currently building a short, light, medium caliber mauser specifically for woodland deer hunting.
      Which sight setup is better for this application especially in the grey light of dawn & dusk (when deer show themselves)

    • #31867
      WCM
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      Seeing iron sights is a problem for me at dark thirty.
      That is why I favor a low powdered scope with good optics.
      My favorite for this condition is the Leupold VX3 1.5X5 with the heavy duplex.

      The scout scope work fine too.

    • #31869
      WCM
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      Love your Mannlicher style rifle.

      I have a Heym Mannlicher in 7X57.

      I am thinking of getting the RCBS 7mm 168 gr mold for it.

    • #31871
      Larry Gibson
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      I also was a huge fan of aperture rear sights with a post front sight for hunting, even in the more wide open spaces. I mostly used Lyman and Redfield aperture rears and put a lot of M14 front sights on rifles as that made for my preferred sight picture. I can still use them on longer barreled rifles (24″ +) but with my old eyes I’ve gravitated to properly mounted “scout” scopes and dot sights on rifles I normally had just aperture sights on. Even my serious long range hunting rifles had back up aperture sights on them. Like Scharfschuetze I favor the Duplex reticle in scopes.

      Larry Gibson

    • #31873
      Goodsteel
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      While I agree with WCM, and last year missed the first deer I’ve ever shot at using iron sights in low light, I would like to say that I have made very effective shots on moving game with my M1A in low light. I have also produced groups at 400 yards that accurately represented my rifle’s cone of fire. This is why I often refer to the Springfield sights as the finest battle sight ever produced.
      If not that, then a scout scope of about 2X is a marvelous addition to a hunting rifle.

    • #31874
      Goodsteel
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      Larry Gibson;n12129 wrote: I also was a huge fan of aperture rear sights with a post front sight for hunting, even in the more wide open spaces. I mostly used Lyman and Redfield aperture rears and put a lot of M14 front sights on rifles as that made for my preferred sight picture. I can still use them on longer barreled rifles (24″ +) but with my old eyes I’ve gravitated to properly mounted “scout” scopes and dot sights on rifles I normally had just aperture sights on. Even my serious long range hunting rifles had back up aperture sights on them. Like Scharfschuetze I favor the Duplex reticle in scopes.

      Larry Gibson

      It is worth noting how close to the barrel Larry mounts his scopes. This undoubtedly allows for more comfortable sight alignment, and the smaller bells get that scope as close to the proper eye level as possible. Very often I see people make the mistake of putting a scope with a 50mm + objective lens on a rifle with a stock that was not made for it, and it makes it so the cheek floats above the comb of the stock, which produces errors in eye alignment (and those big scopes are often picky). This is a very logical and balanced use of optics.

    • #31875
      WCM
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      I always mount my scopes as low as they will go.
      Eye relief has always been a problem for me because I don’t like to crawl a stock to get a full field of view on a regular scope.
      That is one reason I usually buy Leupold.
      Most of their models take eye relief into consideration.

      Of course this is not an issue with a scout scope.

    • #31878
      kens
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      Goodsteel;n12135 wrote: While I agree with WCM, and last year missed the first deer I’ve ever shot at using iron sights in low light, I would like to say that I have made very effective shots on moving game with my M1A in low light. I have also produced groups at 400 yards that accurately represented my rifle’s cone of fire. This is why I often refer to the Springfield sights as the finest battle sight ever produced.
      If not that, then a scout scope of about 2X is a marvelous addition to a hunting rifle.

      When you guys talk of ‘iron sights’ do you mean iron sights like a military mauser, or iron sights like a receiver peep?

      I have hunted with military mauser style sights, and, regular scopes (not scout type)

    • #31881
      WCM
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      kens;n12148 wrote:

      When you guys talk of ‘iron sights’ do you mean iron sights like a military mauser, or iron sights like a receiver peep?

      I have hunted with military mauser style sights, and, regular scopes (not scout type)

      I think of receiver peep sights or tang sights.
      Most of mine have globe front sights and are had to see at dusk.

    • #31883
      kens
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      It easy to understand the globe front + peep rear being hard to see at dusk. My experience has always been that peeps (aperture) are more accurate than a open sight (when using them equally in the middle of daylight). Everything changes in the dim grey of dawn. This is my intent to find the better sight picture for use at the grey light of dawn.
      I have noticed that most if not all commercial gun makers have seemingly no clue as to what makes a good open (iron) sights. Marlin seems to have a decent commercial trigger but their sights sukk.
      Im building a deer Mauser for use specifically for grey light of dawn, and wanting opine on good sights. At this point it seems like the scout scope gets the nod. I currently have a M98/.308 with a weaver K4. the K4 weaver does give me about 20 minutes daylight before dawn and again after sundown (compared to naked eye).
      I am likely to build with some sort of optic sight. But, my next question is:
      Is the scout scope setup any better than my Weaver K4?

    • #31891
      Chris C
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      I have to admit I’ve never had the pleasure of hunting……………………but, when I was”putting together” my Marlin 1895 for bear hunting, (story is too long and never came to fruition) I put a Nikon African 1 to 4 scope on it. http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/956124/nikon-monarch-african-series-rifle-scope-1-4x-20mm-german-4-reticle-matte My eyes are so poor I thought it would help………..and it does. Now if I could just find a place to hunt Arkansas pigs!!!!! 😉

    • #31892
      Goodsteel
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      Scharfschuetze;n12170 wrote: A good tip for using aperture sights for either day light of low light hunting is to get a good variable aperture insert like the Merit device. It works like an old 35mm camera iris and it really helps.

      Here’s a link: http://meritcorporation.com/how_they_work.html

      Here’s one on a parts 1903 rifle.

      Question: have you ever noticed a discrepancy in POA as the aperture is constricted or opened? Does it return to zero after adjustment?

    • #31894
      Scharfschuetze
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      No, no issues with the zero changing. If fact, I have them on two Winchester Model 70 match rifles with Redfield International or Palma sights and if there was a change, I would have noted it. An even better variable aperture device is the Gehman which is made in Germany. I use it on a 40X, but it’s way too pricey for anything but a very serious match rifle. It needs an adapter to fit American threaded sights like the Redfields.

    • #31896
      Goodsteel
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      Thank you. I was curious about that.

    • #31899
      Larry Gibson
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      I’ve 2 of the Merit apertures also and have always preferred them as you can adjust the aperture to fit the light and shooting conditions. I also have 2 of the Gehman aperture sights and use them with the adaptors on Redfield Palma sights on my match M70 and Savage competition rifles. Never had a problem with wandering zero. Even so consider that in very poor light where you’d open the aperture the range is going to be close so any small change, if there is any, should not cause much difference in POI. Many hunters for close range and dim light conditions use the old trick of removing the aperture and then using the very large aperture as a “ghost ring”. That also works well but with the Merit on a Hunting rifle I’ve never needed that, just open the aperture is all that is needed.

      Larry Gibson

      The Gehman on the Redfield Palma sight.

      Here’s the Merit on my M94 Winchester Blk Shadow with 24″ barrel. I can still use the aperture rear and post up front with that length barrel.

    • #31900
      WCM
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      I remove the aperture disc on my 98 Krag and use the ghost ring.
      I also have an old Redfield Sourdough post for a front sight on the rifle.
      It is a nice old woods rifle.

      I only have an adjustable aperture sight on my 74 Sharps.
      I don’t use it for hunting in the woods as it is too long and heavy.

      Finding those old Redfield Sourdough Partridge front sights is hard to do.
      I ran up on a guy at a gunshow at Jackson.Wy that had three.
      I bought all three.

    • #31908
      Waksupi
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      I detest scopes on my personal rifles, but have one anyway. for some reason, I don’t shoot as well with a scope. That being said, I have missed shooting opportunities on both deer and elk in low light situations with aperture sights. That is why I use a scope. Iron sights are fine on the muzzleloaders, as long as there is enough light.

    • #31909
      kens
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      Well now, I hadn’t thought of that……..Ghost ring.
      That seems to be getting popular as of recent, I’ll have to give it a try.

      Here is something that I just thought of recently,,,,,the 3-dot sights on pistols seems pretty good, why not a 3-dot setup such as tritium dots on a woodland carbine rifle???

    • #31910
      WCM
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      I am currently working with a Marlin Cowboy .38/55
      It has a Lyman No.2 tang sight and the standard bead sight that came on the rifle.

      I am going to test some cast bullet loads at 100yds and see what I can do with that setup.
      The rifle is so streamline and beautiful just as it is.
      I have also thought of putting a Lyman 17A globe sight on the rifle.

      I have a Leupold VX2 2X7 duplex scope I can put on the rifle if need be.

      My eyesight isn’t what it was twenty year ago.

    • #31912
      skeettx
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      Remember the Marlin 38/55 Cowboy has a LARGE bore,
      I use .382 bullets for mine

    • #31913
      kens
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      What about this??
      scroll down to their ghost ring sight, page 12
      https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/08…76683464670690

    • #31916
      WCM
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      skeettx;n12203 wrote: Remember the Marlin 38/55 Cowboy has a LARGE bore,
      I use .382 bullets for mine

      Mine slugged at .378 .I am sizing .379 I can go .380 but I am not too sure the cartridge will chamber.

      I have the short Starline brass as the long wont chamber properly in my rifle.

      I will know soon how it will shoot.

    • #31917
      Rattlesnake Charlie
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      Lost the adjustable aperture while deer hunting. Still shoots pretty well with the battle sight.

    • #31920
      Butch Wax
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      Suppose I’m a mutant since I shoot iron sights on my few rifles. And one is a Rossi R92 levergun 357mag with the factory buckhorn rear sight. Further I’m diabetic, wear glasses for up close, and pushing 70. My neighbors across the road is 15 years my junior and whines about the sights on his Marlin 336. I gave him a Williams receiver sight that was great, but he still whines he can’t see the sights and insists he “needs” a scope. I told him what he “wants” is an “easy button” because he lacks the discipline to learn to shoot with iron sights. Besides, puttin’ a scope on a levergun is like drawing a mustache on the Mona Lisa!
      Yeah, guess I’m a mutant since I shoot iron sights on my weapons. 😉

    • #31926
      WCM
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      Butch Wax;n12215 wrote: Suppose I’m a mutant since I shoot iron sights on my few rifles. And one is a Rossi R92 levergun 357mag with the factory buckhorn rear sight. Further I’m diabetic, wear glasses for up close, and pushing 70. My neighbors across the road is 15 years my junior and whines about the sights on his Marlin 336. I gave him a Williams receiver sight that was great, but he still whines he can’t see the sights and insists he “needs” a scope. I told him what he “wants” is an “easy button” because he lacks the discipline to learn to shoot with iron sights. Besides, puttin’ a scope on a levergun is like drawing a mustache on the Mona Lisa!
      Yeah, guess I’m a mutant since I shoot iron sights on my weapons. 😉

      I haven’t given up yet.
      I am going to give it my best shot.

      I may have to mount a scope to see what the gun is ultimately capable of,and work up loads.

      Right now I have some good loads sitting on my loading bench, I may also wind up putting a Lyman 17A on the rifle.

      I doubt seriously if I will ever use the gun to hunt with much.

    • #31927
      kens
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      Mounting a scope, by itself, doesn’t necessarily do anything.
      If you have a scope you need a good one, clear optics. A cheapie scope is no advantage in the grey dim light of dawn/dusk.
      I have a weaver K4 that yields 15 extra minutes of hunting vs naked eye.
      I have a simmons scope that yields nothing.
      A Tasco scope will yield nothing.
      I have a old Redfield that will give a lot of extra daylight.

      In broad daylight all the scopes will look bright, it is in the prime hunting dim light that a quality scope shows its worth.

    • #31928
      Goodsteel
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      That’s one of the best, most unbiased explanations of “light gathering power” that I have ever heard.

    • #31929
      WCM
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      When I was young I was forced to buy rat turd scopes because I didn’t have any money.
      Now days I usually buy Leupolds, Bushnell Elites, or Burris USA made scopes.

      I did own a couple of Redfields growing up.

      I still have one of them on an old Rem 721 .270win.

      I wish I could afford to buy another Leupold MK4 to go on my Varmint barrel AR, but for the most part they are out of my price range.

    • #31930
      Goodsteel
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      I was never “forced” to buy crummy scopes. I just didn’t know any better.
      Once I did know better, I just didn’t think it made that big of a difference.
      Now I know how big a difference it can make and I’m saving for good glass, but I’m too po to just drop 2K on a scope willy nilly.
      I wish I could go back in time and grab my old self by the ears and explain how important a good scope is, but I’ll have to settle for telling people who want excellent performance but don’t care to hear that they need excellent tools to get it.
      (Sigh)
      Just can’t get any satisfaction.

    • #31931
      WCM
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      My Leupold MK 4 is an impressive scope.
      It is by far the best I own .
      The clarity and detail are amazing,but for $1400 it should be.

      Yeah I guess I was forced to buy a twenty dollar scope when I was thirteen.
      I had to save up for it too.
      It worked well enough to kill deer at close range.

      I still have it in a box somewhere to remind me of the good old days of my youth.

    • #31932
      Harter
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      I have hunted a couple of peep sights , bead and blade fronts . Light would seem to be key depending heavily on background raw/polished brass is probably about as good as they get ranging from broken sage and gray/white earth to broken black shale and thickets .

      I’ve shot assorted “Vs” and “U”s , I don’t care for the Buckhorn style nor the “VA” Mauser style . Again the brass bead wins out . I find the glow dots distracting and even more so in low light.

      It could be that I’ve never had the best of the best of the best glass maybe I’ve been exceptionally fortunate in luck of the draw or lighting angles for the dawn patrol . My 97′ Tasco has served these years and is leaps ahead of the K4s from El Paso in clarity . The reflected light that makes the reticle appear gold is a huge asset . The brand new Pronghorn recently installed was quite good on Texas hogs with a 100 yd green light under a new moon night hunt .
      I must check them out under a quarter moon and clear skies .

      I wonder how much effect altitude and the increase in UV has on the remedial optics vs the enhanced .
      Doesn’t matter here much legal hours on game species is only 30 min before sunrise to sunset .

      As to a preferred sight I couldn’t tell you about the field in that instant the whole world is a 4″ spot or a sweep to cover squeeze . Every shot that I have a clear sight picture of was was a misplaced shot unless it was range time . Having killed critters from powder burn to 350 yd with one shot kills and lost game that should have been dead where it stood but at my own fault was not , I would suggest that a sight choice for any given would depend on ones shooting style , choice of arms , cartridge and field . I would think a 40x 50 mm Ziess would be as impractical on a 42″ Trapdoor 45-110 as a vernier ladder peep on a Barret 50 BMG bolt gun .

    • #31933
      Goodsteel
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      Harter;n12234 wrote: I would think a 40x 50 mm Ziess would be as impractical on a 42″ Trapdoor 45-110 as a vernier ladder peep on a Barret 50 BMG bolt gun .

      That’s an interesting statement, and I’m not so sure I agree with you.

    • #31934
      Rattlesnake Charlie
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      I have a Zeiss Conquest 4-14×56 on my prairie dog rifle, an AR-15 in .223 with a 20″ stainless barrel and Timney trigger.

      I have a mid-range vernier from Lee Shaver on my Shiloh Sharps in .45-70 with double set triggers.

      The sights and firearm combinations are not interchangeable. Not only would it be impractical, some things just ain’t right!

    • #31935
      Goodsteel
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      Rattlesnake Charlie;n12236 wrote: I have a Zeiss Conquest 4-14×56 on my prairie dog rifle, an AR-15 in .223 with a 20″ stainless barrel and Timney trigger.

      I have a mid-range vernier from Lee Shaver on my Shiloh Sharps in .45-70 with double set triggers.

      The sights and firearm combinations are not interchangeable. Not only would it be impractical, some things just ain’t right!

      You don’t think I can put a peep sight on a 50BMG and make effective hits? I may have to demonstrate that one day, as I have almost everything I need to build my own rifle.
      High powered scope on a 45-70? That build is in the works right now actually.

    • #31936
      Rattlesnake Charlie
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      The only scope that would be right on a Sharps is one of those original looking long brass tube jobs.

      While things may be possible, some just ain’t right.

    • #31939
      skeettx
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      Like my Ruger #1 in 45-70?

    • #31940
      kens
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      Harter wrote:
      “I have hunted a couple of peep sights , bead and blade fronts . Light would seem to be key depending heavily on background raw/polished brass is probably about as good as they get ranging from broken sage and gray/white earth to broken black shale and thickets .

      I’ve shot assorted “Vs” and “U”s , I don’t care for the Buckhorn style nor the “VA” Mauser style . Again the brass bead wins out . I find the glow dots distracting and even more so in low light.”

      I agree except that I dont like a bead front, I prefer a tall blade. I do agree on brass tho.
      So I guess that my favorite peep sight coming out of this thread would be a ghost ring rear/with a brass blade front. This should be the best light gathering peep of all the discussion thus far.

    • #31941
      WCM
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      “Well Mr Carpetbagger , we have something in this country called the Missouri Boat Ride.”

    • #31943
      Scharfschuetze
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      Remember that telescope sights as well as aperture sights do not increase the light that is available to the shooter’s pupil. They can only transmit what light is there. A good low power scope that has coated optics inside and out with excellent quality glass will transmit more of that available light to the eye than a lesser scope. The higher the scope’s power, the smaller the exit pupil and thus there is less available light to the eye.

      The exit pupil of optics is the diameter of the focus area behind the ocular lens. In most scopes this is about three inches. The exit pupil should be at least as large as the light adapted iris of the shooter’s eye to get the maximum view in dim light. Any more light (larger exit pupil) is blocked by the eye’s iris and is not usable. This is mostly a daytime phenomenon so it’s not important at this point.

      A young eye can, at best, open to 8mm while a 60 year old man may only have a 4mm pupil in dim light. Manufacturer’s scope sight specs should give you the exit pupil in millimeters of the scope. If the exit pupil is smaller than the eye’s dilated/adapted pupil, or the shooter’s pupil is less than the scope’s exit pupil, then… well you loose. Older eyes just can’t process the available light efficiently due to cataracts, darkening of the eye’s internal fluid and other issues, so at some point, all the available light possible is not going to help a senior shooter. It won’t hurt, but it is no panacea.

      For aperture sights, dim light obviously requires a large aperture while bright light is best viewed through a smaller aperture. Thus the popularity of the “ghost ring” sight on woods rifles or why I recommended the Merit adjustable iris in a previous post.

    • #31950
      kens
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      With all that is said thus far about scopes, and with all things being equal, (quality, power, exit pupil)
      Which scope would be better in the dim grey light of dawn for a quick acguistion shot at deer or pig inside 75 yards? (likely inside 40yds and heavily brush & wooded)
      which better, a scout scope or classic scope??
      what the pros & cons of each?

    • #31951
      Larry Gibson
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      I’ve a small manual put out to calculate the available exit pupil. A 32 to 40 objective lens will give a 60 to 80mm exit pupil between 6 and 7 power. Given a quality scope with very good to excellent lens that is about all that is available. A scope only “gather” the light available not increase it as Scharfschuetze mentions. The quality of lens and coating used these days in most scopes are much better than that of years back. An excellent quality expensive scope from 50 years ago, while still serviceable, is only as good as moderately priced scopes of today. My 1.5×5 and 1×4 power Leupolds of less than 4 years old are much better at dawn/dusk than my 2×7 power Leupold which is 40+years old.

      All was a moot point where I used to hunt because the hunting regs had shooting time NET 30 minutes before sunrise and NLT 30 minutes after sunset. That gave plenty of light for the use of aperture sights which is why I used them for many years. It also gave enough light to tell whether it was a buck or doe or any other legal requirements for shooting. Where it’s legal to shoot before or after those times in really dim light, such as when I shot a Sika doe in Texas a few years back, a quality scope is necessary. It was just when it was light enough to see any movement and the Zeiss Conquest 3×9 scope and at 3X it gave all the light gathering my old eyes could use. I was not able to discern the spots on the sika but could tell it from the whitetail doe that was there also. The range was about 40 yards. Given I had a 30-06 with 2850 fps 165s I decided on a neck shot. Was very good eating……….

      Larry Gibson

    • #31956
      Rattlesnake Charlie
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      No doubt good scopes increase your shooting time on both ends. I also have a Leupold 6x on my Winchester M70 (post 64) in .308 Winchester. Wonderful combo. I still took the Sharps deer hunting for the second year in a row. I am a nostalgic kind of guy.

      skeettx
      I do like your rifle. It looks right.

    • #31957
      kens
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      But what about the difference between scout scope and regular scope?
      How does the long eye relief change things?

    • #31958
      Larry Gibson
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      If you use a $69.99 Necstar or other cheap Chinese pistol scope and call it a scout scope then you will be disappointed. If you buy a real Leupold or Burris scout scope (2 or 2.5X) you won’t find any difference in light gathering ability between them and any comparable regular scope at the same power. With the Burris 2×7 scout I find it every bit as good at 5 to 7x as any of my other regular scopes at similar power.

      Larry Gibson

    • #31963
      Goodsteel
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      Light doesn’t lose much over 9″ from the rear end of a scout/pistol scope vs. a standard scope of 6″ less. After all, the light you are sensing already traveled all the way from your target to your scope. Another few inches won’t matter much.
      I second Larrys opinion on scope quality. I’ve recently been spending a lot of time with a 2X Leupold pistol scope, mounted in a scout arrangement, and the light gathering is impressive.
      Most of my clients want as much magnification as they can afford. I want as little as I think I can get away with.

    • #31964
      Scharfschuetze
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      Most of my clients want as much magnification as they can afford. I want as little as I think I can get away with.

      Very true and very wise.

    • #31965
      kens
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      For the woodland hunting I do, high power is no good. Sometimes you put a deer in the crosshairs and all you see is hair, a full scope of nothing but hair. No way to tell if you looking at the vitals or the butt end. Like I mentioned before, most of my deer shots were within bow range. You need low power, high quality. With quality comes definition and resolution.
      You need to resolve whether you looking at a deer ear, or, a leaf twisting in a spider web.

    • #31976
      Rattlesnake Charlie
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      I have the Burris 2×7 mounted as a scout scope on my M38 Mosin-Nagant. It is a nice scope.

    • #31978
      kens
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      Rattlesnake Charlie;n12288 wrote: I have the Burris 2×7 mounted as a scout scope on my M38 Mosin-Nagant. It is a nice scope.

      Is that a pistol scope ??

    • #31985
      Rattlesnake Charlie
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      kens;n12290 wrote:

      Is that a pistol scope ??

      Yes. It was what was available at the time.

    • #31996
      kens
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      That something I thought about, use pistol scope as a scout scope, I was unsure about the eye relief.
      There is not as much selection of scout scopes as there are pistol scopes.

    • #32001
      Goodsteel
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      The margin for error with a long eye relief scope is much greater.
      For instance, with my 2X Leupold, I have an effective view of the scope with no shadow from 9″ all the way to 19″, but they call it a 9″ eye relief scope.
      This is very common. The manufacturers call out the minimum eye relief available, but lets be real about the way things are, and how light disperses.
      In contrast, take a Leupold VXI 3-9X40.
      At 3X magnification, the margin for correct eye placement is 3″-7″, but crank it up to 9X and your eye must be somewhere between 3″ and 4″ from the lense. Thus, the level of magnification directly correlates to the difficulty the shooter will have snapping into the correct place quickly.
      Add to that what has already been said about the optic being inherently dimmer with higher magnification, and there you have it. .

    • #32003
      kens
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      I had not thought about eye relief at higher power. I don’t normally use high power, even tho a 2×7 or 3×9 is the most common of scopes sold. This has been a real good thread.
      So now Im seeing that the best scope sight for deer in heavy brush, quick to shoulder, in the dim grey light of dawn, is:
      low power with about 7mm exit pupil such as 3×21 or smaller, of high quality optics, long eye relief, mounted with shortest height rings possible.
      What else do we throw into the mix?

    • #32004
      Goodsteel
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      kens;n12321 wrote: I had not thought about eye relief at higher power. I don’t normally use high power, even tho a 2×7 or 3×9 is the most common of scopes sold. This has been a real good thread.
      So now Im seeing that the best scope sight for deer in heavy brush, quick to shoulder, in the dim grey light of dawn, is:
      low power with about 7mm exit pupil such as 3×21 or smaller, of high quality optics, long eye relief, mounted with shortest height rings possible.
      What else do we throw into the mix?

      Well. One thing that might be said on a bit of a tangent to this subject is to be equally conservative with your choice of caliber.
      I know some will gasp, but it is my opinion that a 7mmMagnum is not the right caliber for 150 yards and closer shots on deer. A 30-30, or 308 loaded with 2000fps cast bullets is more than sufficient for these shots.
      I think a discriminating shooter/hunter is more concerned with shot placement than barking all the trees in his field of view with the muzzle blast and roasting a little bullet through the deer at almost 4000FPS.

      I figure a young man drives a blown 454 4X4 Chevy with mud gripper tires to the office, while his dad drives a rusty 4 cylinder Ranger and is never late.
      LOL!

    • #32008
      kens
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      I have 2 project mausers going on.
      1 is the M95 in another thread about feeding .35rem.
      1 is a bubba’d 98a (small ring, large thread ) 8mm cut down to about 20″ bbl
      perhaps one of them will get a scout scope, and the other one a ghost ring with brass front blade

    • #32190
      Sgt. Mike
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      Goodsteel;n12322 wrote:

      ….I know some will gasp, but it is my opinion that a 7mmMagnum is not the right caliber for 150 yards and closer shots on deer. A 30-30, or 308 loaded with 2000fps cast bullets is more than sufficient for these shots…………………LOL!

      HA …. the 7mm Mag at 50 yards ways out weighs a 30-30 or 308 Win cast loads or at least that what my 18 yo son ( aka the Great White Hunter ) says while presenting his man card ……

      Of course the Great White Hunter father replies with

      On optics it should be actually fixed power, quick to focus with your eye, rugged, and fog free, just my opinion

    • #32193
      lead-1
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      While I can’t put any good input to the topic, I couldn’t rifle hunt here until this season, I have to say I like the reconfiguration of Larry Gibson’s FR-8 rifle.

    • #32203
      dragon813gt
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      I’m younger and have been taking scopes off my rifles. I know this will bite me eventually. I feel my eyesight getting worse. But I will deal w/ my decision in the future.

      I’m partial to apertures. Specifically Skinners. Every one of my Marlins wears one. I have a Merit aperture for the one in 35 Remington since it’s the rifle I grab first for hunting. The others have carry a mid size aperture on the post and the smallest possible on the barrel blank. Removing the factory rear sight and installing the blank so you can hold an extra aperture has worked well for me. I have lost apertures in the field before. Nothing like being forced to use the post as a ghost ring.

      They all have brass front posts that have been filed down to the correct height. Brass has proven to be the best color for me. The only time I have trouble picking it up is against white on a sunny day. These conditions are foreign to me while hunting so it’s pretty much a non issue. It’s easy to see the front post on an overcast day in the woods.

    • #32205
      Scharfschuetze
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      Sadly I am having to transition to scope sights now that I’m in my mid 60s. I never thought the day would come, but it is on the horizon.

      Still, a good aperture sight will extend your eyes ability to use iron sights for some time. Also a trip to the optometrist for a shooting prescription will also help immensely. Ask for lenses that focus about 36″ to 40″ from your eyes. That’s about perfect for revolvers or rifles. You’ll revel in seeing that front sight clearly again. Have them made with impact resistant lenses while you’re at it.

      How’s this for about the best set up in a hunting rifle with a peep sight? The tang sight coupled with a Sourdough front sight is about as good as it gets for older eyes.

    • #32215
      kens
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      what is a Sourdough front sight?

    • #32220
      kens
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      OH, that works.
      I shot a lot of traditional muzzle loaders years ago, the standard front sight was a thin brass blade, and yes, it was brighter on grey days, and too shiny out in the bright sun.
      It is easier to lamp-black a brass blade, than to get a dark steel blade to go bright.

    • #32232
      kens
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      Earlier in this thread someone said that a scope does not intensify the light to your eye, or, said scope does not magnify the light to your eye.
      I beg to differ, or beg for an explanation.
      When I hunt with my Weaver K4,. I can see better in the dim grey light of dawn in the woods. I see things that I cannot identify by naked eye, but sometimes can discern it with the scope.
      If the scope is not bringing in more light than naked eye, then what IS it doing? I know some of this has to do with good or better optics, My K4 will do this, my Swift and Simmons will not.

    • #32236
      popper
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      Entrance area determines light capture. Vinyetting is what you see as a dark ring around the sight picture. Starlite scopes had a huge aperture in front of magnified IR/ green converter. Personally I start/stop when I can eyeball targets. Magnification can increase resolution of a target you can eyeball but not identify.

    • #32239
      Scharfschuetze
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      There is nothing in conventional optics that can increase the available or ambient light. The objective lens collects the available light and the larger the objective lens, the more light that it can capture. The quality of the glass used and the coatings on the lenses help to transmit the light. Compare a 1950s Leopold or Weaver scope with one manufactured today and if all else (Obj diameter and power) is the same, you will note a tremendous difference in the transmission of light. There is no doubt that a quality scope of lower power will extend your shooting light because it collects and transmits more light. As posted earlier, the age of the shooter also has a lot to do with how much light his scope can present to his retina. Young eyes see better in low light conditions because the eye fluid is still clear and the iris can open up to a much larger diameter.

      Starlight scopes on the other hand actually increase the light via electrically increasing the light photons several times within the scope before presenting it to the eye. The current generation of Starlight scopes and goggles make the original ANPVS 2 scope sight of the Vietnam era look like stone age equipment. My first use of Starlight technology was in VN and I finished up using some pretty advanced units in the GWOT, but nothing like what my son is using now. While Starlight equipment is great, it will not help when there is no ambient light such as under triple canopy jungle, clearing buildings at night or in monsoon rain with only a crescent moon. That is why many Starlight goggles have a small infra red light on them for such occasions.

    • #32245
      WCM
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      Great post , thanks.

      My son bought a SWFA scope for his new Savage Model 12 FV .308
      It is a great scope for $300 , but when it get to 5:30 in the evening the scope becomes a paper weight because of the poor optic quality.

      He wanted a scope primarily for shooting targets in the day light hours and one that would track consistently.

      Optic quality of scopes has improved vastly over the last twenty five years in order to stay completive with the market.
      I have a Leupold VX3 4.5X14 from the late 90’s and optical quality is no where near as good as the same scope made today.

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