- May 7, 2016 at 2:33 am #27642
Was supposed to PCS this June so I decided to use up a tail load of leave that I stand in danger of losing (30 days)…. so far I have been working on to get ready for me to head down to Texas:
1. levelling the back yard that has had a terrible time draining with the tractor. Next will be to flip the blade and ditch it out to start it ready for a french drain to help with drying the back yard up some so when the wet season get here I’m not bailing water.
2. I knew that my 2005 Dodge pickup would needs mechanical attention because of high mileage and it had been basically bullet proof. Hence I had bought a 2015 Dodge challenger base model (v-6) to keep the miles off and allow me to use it as a truck and slowly address what is starting to just have wear and tear. The water pump finally went out on truck, so I got around to pulling it and replacing it. It being a Hemi the water pump was the size of a Pirus motor which I had a good laugh with Bjorn, Larry Gibson, and Tim about. For the past little bit the oil pressure drops, put it in neutral turn it off and recrank the oil pressure returns to normal. So I’m down to thinking Oil pump or sludge in the oil pan usually does this right after hard acceleration. Asked the local dealership here how much to do the oil pump .. little over $1200.00 shop labor time was listed as 8.7 hours.
Right now trying to diagnose if the pump is actually failing because in order to change it ……….. the water pump, timing cover, timing chain, lower pulley(harmonic balancer), oil pan, starter, basically the whole front and bottom end then she (oil pump) slides over the crankshaft and bolts to the block. – Reassemble after my research I’m thinking the 8.7 hours is probably conservative.
In order to do the checks I have decided to attempt to desludge the engine without a complete teardown rebuild, I’m leery of using too much of a product such as sea foam as it could dislodge and block oil passages in the top end. Another method is to use a High Detergent oil and frequent Oil / Oil filter changes Change Filter every 1K and Oil at 2K. I’m thinking that use less than half of what is recommended of sea foam (1 oz per quart of oil) may not be too harsh of a sludge removal with frequent oil changes after the flush then repeat.
I was holding a conversation with one of the folks at Advance Auto and I was asking if a 0W-20 High detergent oil would not be gentler than sea foam in dissolving the sludge instead of the 5W-20 that is called for which he stated that the correct oil for my motor was 10W-30. I looked at him and grinned saying not the Gen III hemi, it takes 5W-20, so he pulls his computer system up and states the information came from Dodge sure enough it was there. This caused me a severe case of doubt both in what he said and what I believed to be true, so I picked up the new PVC valve, seafoam, K&N recharge kit, and new oil filter minus the 7 quarts of oil needed. Off to the house I went to check the owners manual, Yes my oil cap says 5W-20 which I knew.. looked through the manual and sure enough confirmed what I thought 5W-20 for every climate and no mention of a alternate oil viscosity. What I will say every engine except the 5.7 did mention the viscosity that his computer screen showed. Typo I’m sure.
3. Now down to the PCS seems the manning of where I was going has been changed and now DA ( Department of the Army) has cancelled my orders, my career manager explained that he would have to find another location for me to go to. This rather upset me as I plan on retiring here in Arkansas I did not mind going to Texas as it was not too far, but being within two years of a mandatory forced retirement I’m not open to a world wide assignment. To further complicate issues the word is that DA is going lower the amount of service time for my rank by 2 years, but no one knows when they are going to release the policy, so it is just rumour so far. So I have pretty much made up my mind cut my leave short and head back to the office drop my retirement paper work requesting retirement date of 1 June 2017. That will put a stop to any transfer once the paper work has been submitted for processing, oh well they are trying everything in the world to get rid of us “Seasoned” or aka Old Soldiers.
So far I have enjoyed my 1 week off, kinda, (actually only 5 days) that was supposed to encompass 4 weeks ….. Wonder what next week holds LOL
So how was your week?
Notice the pump on the crankshaft.
Not complaining just filling folks in
- May 7, 2016 at 7:12 am #27647Wright ArmsParticipant
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If you have been using a decent oil and changing it when recommended, I doubt you problems with oil pressure are due to sludge build-up. May I suggest that you temporarily install a mechanical gauge to confirm that there is, in fact, a pressure problem? I am no MOPAR expert, but engines will often survive for a long time on considerably less that ‘book’ oil pressure. You might also consider a slight bump in viscosity, to say 10-20 or 5-30. Yes, it’s a Band-Aid approach, but I suppose it all depends on what your expectations are. Kinda like rifles, eh?
If you are, in fact, seeing a significant pressure drop after hard acceleration, perhaps a mechanical gauge would be beneficial in pin-pointing exactly what to investigate next. (?)
At any rate, good luck with your project and I hope I may have helped in some small way.
- May 7, 2016 at 10:41 am #27648HarterParticipant
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I’ve washed a lot of basic pan crud out of pans with a little diesel poured through the fill cap and out the plug . . The oil brands you’ve run for however long you’ve run them will have a huge impact on how much crud is in the engine . We ran Valvoline for decades and never had much more than heavy scale in them but I’ve seen pencil and quakerstate engines that I swear shouldn’t be opening the valves ..
100 miles with a quart of at will wash lots of loose soft stuff loose . Drain it hot and pour in a qt or so of diesel let I set drain and pour some more through until clear. .
I’d bet on a tired sender over low or dropping pressure.
- May 7, 2016 at 3:38 pm #27649
Darrin, Harter thanks for the comments and thoughts.
I have used the diesel (kerosene/ ATF) method in the past in small block Chevy’s and Ford’s that I have owned like Harter mentioned. He is dead on with his statement in my opinion always like valvoline and seen Quaker state that was gummy as heck sludge is not a problem until it loosens up and get to the Oil pan and blocks the pick up tube. When I bought this truck she had like 30,000 on the clock, and used it as a daily driver and today she has right at 200,000 on the clock now. I not 100% sure there is sludge in the pan or engine but with the pressure acting up, it is the number one suspect. Every time I have changed the oil she has ran (drained) freely. The Best part of this is it is not my only vehicle which means I can take my time on putting her back into shape. When I change the filter I’ll take a die grinder cut the filter to check for sludge. If it is there one can capture quite a bit by changing the filter often in between oil changes.
I’ll get her fixed back to the tire wrenching terror that she is LOL. Just have to figure out which is the easiest and best way to get it done.
Looking at what the dealership as listed for cost for repair maybe is not that bad for what has to happen to replace the pump. There method is just replace the whole oiling system which is not a bad method.
I can get the pump cheap enough something like $140.00 then tack on gasket sets, oil pick up tube and while there might as well change the timing chain and tensioners .
I’ve made the joke that maybe it would be best to get a re-manufactured engine for 5K or buy a wrecked truck with the same engine tranny setup for parts.
After this there is only two other glaring issues left Catalytic Converter ( for cut out weld in’s $100.00 each, the whole pipe setup from Dodge over $600.00) and O2 Sensors (mine run about $30,00each)
All in all I’m really pleased with this mopar, I have owned pretty much all the major brands and so far this one has been the easiest to maintain which kinda explains why when I when to buy the second car I only went to one branded car lot.
- May 7, 2016 at 6:31 pm #27654ScrewboltsParticipant
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IMHO as long as you have oil pressure you are good to go. In the late 60s threw 80s on the farm we had several Oliver tractors with the Walkashaw diesel engines, when cold started the would have 30 pounds of OP, WOT, once warmed up the ran about 7 at Idle and 18 or so full throttle under load. They all ran for 8 to 12 thousand hrs like that.
200K is high mileage?
- May 7, 2016 at 8:00 pm #27656MTtimberlineParticipant
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I second the suggestion to install a manual gauge to confirm there is an oil pressure issue or an electrical/sensor/gauge issue before doing any major work on the engine. It will give a better idea of which direction to go than find out the issue is still present after investing the cost and time of any unnecessary intensive repairs. Not saying it isn’t a pump or internal engine issue, just to confirm it with a little time in troubleshooting. Might try just the sensor first and adapt a manual 100 psi gauge in its place temporarily to check that it confirms what the dash gauge is reading. The auto parts store probably has a gauge you can borrow or rent for the testing. It could be a sensor or electrical problem from the sounds of the oil you see and the problem going away when the key is cycled. Cutting open a filter and looking for any metal (nonferrous meaning bearing) is a good indicator of what is happening inside the engine. I’m not familiar with the mopar engines so this is only my 2 cents.
- May 7, 2016 at 10:26 pm #27665AnonymousInactive
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Maybe you have sludge in the top end (Under valve cover)
Do you have a bore scope ?
I also say check pressure with a gauge
- May 7, 2016 at 10:38 pm #27666
Yeah the oil pressure switch has been replaced right off the bat.
In the oiling concept Mopar vs Bowtie vs Ford all are basically the same just types of oil pickups and pump location and throughput is different. But method is the same regardless.
The mechanical pressure gauge is a great idea, but the dropping pressure is under load not idling. BUT then again it might show inconsistent pressure which is a indicator. I’ll get to harbor freight I think they have the gauge to screw into the sensor location
Screwbolts is correct on the oil pressure any is ok it does not have to be XX but consistent if this was the case I would not be concerned, but what I referring to is ZERO pressure on the gauge and the dash illuminated with HEY STOOPID CHECK GAUGES red light LOL .
Like I said shift to neutral while rolling down the road……….. shut off motor…….. recrank ……….and pressure is immediately right back up to normal….. slip back into gear and acts normal.
- May 9, 2016 at 5:33 pm #27704RegParticipant
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If you suspect sludge on the bottom why not remove the plug, drain then fish around through the drain plug hole with a short piece of 16 gauge copper wire to try to feel if there is a build up on the bottom of the pan. If there is anything there at all it will show up on the wire. If it comes out clean ( and I bet it will ) you have something else acting up.
Keep that wire short. Only long enough to feel around only on the bottom of the pan and right around the drain hole, you sure don’t want to snag it on anything.
Sending unit— gauge , pump ??? A remote gauge will tell a lot cheaply.
If there is sludge on the bottom it should also be on top of the heads in the galleys, JHSFun is right, a bore scope will quickly show it.
- May 9, 2016 at 8:11 pm #27707popperParticipant
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Look for clogged head drain holes. High revs for awhile pumps into the valve train and empties the pan. Wears the rings fast as no splash oiling. I pulled the PVC and checked oil level on a chev V6. Put drain plugs in the covers – each held a quart.
- May 9, 2016 at 11:14 pm #27709chutesnreloadsParticipant
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you should kick the tires:phave you kicked the tires
- May 10, 2016 at 12:02 am #27712MTtimberlineParticipant
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If that doesn’t work…remove radiator cap and hold it there, roll truck out from underneath, roll new truck under cap and screw cap back on.
- May 10, 2016 at 1:05 am #27714
LMAO at MTtimberline that is a good one
“remove radiator cap and hold it there, roll truck out from underneath, roll new truck under cap and screw cap back on. “
I’ll have to remember that one….
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