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    • #24042
      Anonymous
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      I have 2 Lee molds that have done their job of helping me to learn to cast bullets. I am now ready to move up to a better mold. I have also recently started experimenting with powder coating.

      I have been debating on which NOE mold to buy. They sell the traditional lube groove molds but they also have non lube groove molds for Hi=Tek coating. I assume those would work well for PC bullets as well.

      My question is do the benefits of not having lube grooves outweigh the benefits of having options? I understand that without lube grooves there is more bearing surface to grip the riffling. Perhaps other advantages I am unaware of. But with lube grooves there is always the possibility of using other methods of lubing the bullets (pan lubing, lubrisizers, tumble lube, etc.). Without electricity I can still melt lead and cast bullets. Without electricity PCing becomes much more difficult, doable but with less predictable results.

      So what do you guys think? With or without grooves?

    • #24046
      Goodsteel
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      Logic:
      Do the lube grooved bullets have a problem gripping the rifling in the first place even powder coated?
      No.
      Do you gain anything other than the bearing surface you don’t need by having no lube grooves?
      No.
      Given the availability of modern lubes, is the TL style grooves better for grease lube shooting, or do we really need MORE LUBE up in here?
      TL grooves trump.

      The way I see it, if you’re a shooter who likes to keep your options open, the best bullet designs are those with small lube grooves that have a nose angle that is more abrupt than your rifling so the PC thickness changes your seating depth as little as possible (assuming you are bumping your throats (or throat) with the bullet). You also want a bullet that has more driving band length than nose length. a good rule of thumb is a bullet that has more than 60% of its length in contact with the barrel after it is in there. 75% is better still.
      I see the smooth sided bullets as a bit of a gimmick for people who are desperately trying to proclaim their loyalty to PC by having no traditional grooves on the part of the bullet that is hidden in the brass.
      Me? I like to have the versatility of the TL grooves. I can TL if I’m in a hurry to get some bullets stuffed in the brass for a shoot, or if I wish to try traditional grease for some reason, that option is there as well.

      Somebody else might have a different standpoint, but this is exactly why I started the PC accuracy thread.
      Does having a slick sided bullet help on paper? I await results. Till I see then, I’m sticking with what works.

    • #24052
      OptimusPanda
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      I am curious. I had always believed (possibly incorrectly so) that sizing and lubing a TL bullet with a lube sizer would erase the smaller grooves and make them unusable. Now that I think of it how deep are they, I’ve never cast one myself.

    • #24054
      Anonymous
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      Thanks Tim. That was really my question, if the extra bearing surface would make any difference. If not then the decision is easy. Options are always a good thing. I don’t think NOE makes a TL mold for a 9mm, maybe they will come out with one soon.

      OptimusPanda if you size a bullet down enough you will lose the groves. But if you only size it down a couple thousandths they will still be there.

    • #24055
      chutesnreloads
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      May help if you tell us what the bullets will be shot in and what they’ll be used for.Hunting,plinking,serious target work?

    • #24057
      Anonymous
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      I only load 9mm right now. I shoot steel targets at about 12 yards. I have a S&W Shield and an SD9VE. I carry the Shield and use the SD9 for home defense and as my test gun.

      I am debating between getting a mold with straight sides versus getting one with lube grooves. I am also thinking of getting a hollow point mold so they could be used for self defense as well.

    • #24063
      Goodsteel
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      OptimusPanda;n2172 wrote: I am curious. I had always believed (possibly incorrectly so) that sizing and lubing a TL bullet with a lube sizer would erase the smaller grooves and make them unusable. Now that I think of it how deep are they, I’ve never cast one myself.

      That is totally false. Every TL bullet I use gets pushed through a sizer that is .001-.002 over groove diameter and the lube grooves are still present and accounted for. How would sizing them in the lube sizer change that? It’s the same thing except you’re filling the lube grooves with grease.

    • #24064
      Goodsteel
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      Amiaji;n2174 wrote: Thanks Tim. That was really my question, if the extra bearing surface would make any difference. If not then the decision is easy. Options are always a good thing. I don’t think NOE makes a TL mold for a 9mm, maybe they will come out with one soon.

      OptimusPanda if you size a bullet down enough you will lose the groves. But if you only size it down a couple thousandths they will still be there.

      NOE, makes fine mold, and this here is about as sweet as sourwood honey:
      http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product…2k1gti0b3t4u25
      Also, check this one:
      http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=2098&osCsid=1m0mg2sqleg42k1gti0b3t4u25

      Now I love NOE, but they are not the only game in town. Accurate molds makes a fantastic bullet mold too, and if you’re willing to buy one then send it to Eric at hollowpointmold.com, you will have the finest quality HP mold in the world IMHO bar none. It will cost double what the NOE mold does but what a peach! Tom will cut anything you desire and often it will be sitting on your porch a week after you ordered it. The bullet fall out without any drama, and the design and quality is top notch (the very top notch as a matter of fact).

      I patronize both these manufacturers.

    • #24067
      Anonymous
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      Those are some nice looking molds. Both of the molds you linked are gas check molds. Was that intentional? Is there a reason for using GC’ed bullets in a 9 mm?

    • #24069
      Goodsteel
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      Yes.
      I don’t know much about casting for 9mm, but I know that its’ a sharp, snappy little cartridge and the GC does a lot to tame it down, prevent leading, and improve accuracy. I’d have done the same for 40S&W. Same situation.
      However, if you’re feellin froggy and you want to hop on it, there are those same molds with PB. With PC you might get it to work, but then you’ll have trouble if you go back to grease.
      Like I said before, I’m all about versatility and options. I would definitely use PC in this situation, but I wouldn’t want it to be my only choice.
      If you feel differently, please disregard. This is my opinion only.

    • #24076
      Anonymous
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      Sorry I didn’t mean to offend you, nor was I trying to argue with you. I was just curious about the gas check. I am a total newbie to reloading and casting and I value your opinion.

    • #24077
      Goodsteel
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      I’m not offended.
      I was just trying to explain that my opinion is not necessarily best for you. If you’re sold out on PC, and you have no intention of ever using another method on these bullets, I could see how you might very easily opt for plain base, and that would not be wrong. I could see how you could very easily opt for smooth wall, and that would not be wrong either because you might not care to ever attempt grease groove or TL method.
      I’m not irritated, I’m just trying to help you make the best choice for YOU is all.
      It’s all good brother.

    • #24086
      Harter
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      I shoot PB in both 9 and 40 with no leading. I shot the Lee 356-124 TLTC 1st but switched to the 357-125 RNFP with good results. I chose it to have 1 bullet for all the 9/38/357 combinations just in case and it was in a 6C WW serves fine . The 40 in an XD has to be WW water cooled or heat treated in either the 401 175 swc or an LBT 403 175 RNFP . Both shoot well with a max load of Unique just shy of 1000 fps. . (Disclaimer jacketed data with a 1968 lot of Unique )

    • #24101
      Anonymous
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      Has anyone here cast bullets with the NOE hollow point molds? I am wondering how well they work. I have been searching but can’t find any videos of them in use.

    • #24106
      DeadWoodDan
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      yes, there is just a small learning curve, such as getting the pins hot and if needed a little lube (without getting in cavity). If I can do it anyone can!

    • #24113
      Goodsteel
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      Amiaji;n2236 wrote: Has anyone here cast bullets with the NOE hollow point molds? I am wondering how well they work. I have been searching but can’t find any videos of them in use.

      I’ve cast with them. They don’t need any special treatment past what you would expect with any HP mold, except that the pins do not always return to the same place and you get varying bullet weights from them if you do not carefully close the mold the same each time. This is nothing to be concerned with on pistol bullets however. It’s going to take more than a 1 grain difference in weight to screw up your accuracy at 25 yards.

      Still, it is a HP mold, and as such, you better not neglect getting a hot plate set up to preheat your mold.

    • #24129
      dverna
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      Gas checks can be put on a PB bullet but you have to buy the die and produce them yourself. GC’s are made from beverage cans or thin coils ( up to .006″ I believe)

    • #24132
      Anonymous
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      Can you shoot a gas check bullet without a gas check?

    • #24137
      Goodsteel
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      Amiaji;n2269 wrote: Can you shoot a gas check bullet without a gas check?

      Yes, of course you can. Let the gun and the groups produced determine whether you should with each combination.

    • #24387
      Menner
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      I have 1 HP mold it is a Lee 401-175 tc Hollow Pointed by Erik Can not say enough about Erik and his design bullets fall out of that mold like there was no HP pins.
      Can only imagine what a NOE Mold would be like when Erik was done with it you have to at least check out his site
      Tony

    • #24390
      Anonymous
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      I did check out Erik’s site. He does some nice work.

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