Tagged: Building two rifles
- August 18, 2018 at 9:40 pm #68797JniedbalskiParticipant
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<p style=”text-align: left;”>i have always wanted a custom rifle. I can only shoot 400 to maybe 500 yards on public ranges around here. I can find a private spot 1000 yards or more but don’t want to spend a lot of time driving. The only problem right now is cost. Maybe in a few years when the kids move out I can save enough to finally get my dream rifle. So I was thinking for now a 400 to 500 yard rifle that I could build myself to pratice on would be a good . I have been looking at the savage and ruger rifles. Because of the barrel nut system I could buy a rifle and if it dosent shoot always buy a premium barrel and install it my selph. At first I could use the factory barrel to get pratice time in. If I could get 1 1/2 inch groups or less at 100 yards constantly I would be happy. Over time if my shooting improves I would like to fit a Boyd’s stock and piller bed it and get a premium trigger. I was thinking about the 6.5 creedmore just because of the availability of good bullets brass and ammo or a 6.5 sweed I will load for this gun but it’s nice to know good preamium ammo is everywhere for the creadmore. Not so much for the 6.5 sweed. I would also like to build a 223 for a light kicking cheeper ammo rifle. I had years ago a savage single shot target rifle bull barrel in 220 swift that was awesome at 300 yards. Don’t rember the model number I thank 112. This was pre internet so my hand loads never where as good as factory ammo . The frontier ammo I thank the brand shot 1 1/2 inch ten shot groops or less at 300 yards on calm days. I could do this fairly often on good days with this ammo. My reloads would only do at best 2 to three in or so. I only tried two different powders and only two different bullets. Now it’s so easy to get on the net and find info to improve your load and find out what to try to improve things. I wonder if the cheep savage axis would be worth building with a premium barrel and a Boyd’s stock? My son has a axis in 308 that is decent at 100 yards as is for a cheep gun.It shoots cast really good .i have tried 90 gr up to 200 gr. The 90 to 100 grain cast at 25 and 50 yards with 3.2 grains of bullseye is my favorite fun load. This gives me a cheep fun load that I can spend a whole day at the range having fun but getting good pratice time in . Iam not compeating with anybody but myself. I would like to build a 223 axis for the 300 yard range and the 6.5 creedmore or 6.5 sweed for the 600 yard range. I would like to have two different rifles so me and my son can go out and shoot together and have a winters project to do together. The reason I was thinking the axis was because of price. What do you all think. Iam looking for two rifles that can shoot .75 to 1 in at 100 yards after building with decent parts. Ism also wanting two guns that me and my son can learn on together as we progress in are shooting and skill thanks</p>
- August 19, 2018 at 9:22 am #68798GoodsteelKeymaster
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You want what everyone wants. How perfectly your desires are realised is a direct reflection of how well you built the rifles.
For instance, you want 1moa? Depending on how you define that, you could get anything to shoot. Here, we insist on 10 shot groups and only a rifle that produces results on several range sessions is accepted.
However, if youre willing to bang away at the target for two hours, and hold up three shots as proof positive your rifle rocks, and the rest were “fliers”, that’s a different story.
Ill be real candid for a minute here. I build custom rifles for a living, and the truth is that people spend large on their rifles because that’s what it takes to get the results. The barrel is paramount. A typical factory barrel will start life attempting to copper itself into smooth average. Once this is done, precision will get better and better untill its hovering at just over MOA, then it will gradually walk back out to 1.6ish, then walk back down to just over MOA. That’s as good as it gets.
Cheap aftermarket barrels will do the same, but to a lesser degree. The transitions are less violent, and the overall consistency is better.
Finally, we come to premium hand lapped barrels. These come out of the gate strong delivering .5-.6 inch groups for ten shots on demand. They hold this performance like a tuning fork holds a note, and they do it till the barrel is shot out. The lovely thing about this is that it’s so consistent, and predictable that you as the shooter have absolute confidence about what you are seeing down range, and you can learn at an accelerated rate. This incessant blaming of ourselves to explain the rifles performance is horse manure. The human behind the rifle is only able to be as good as the rifle allows, and the skill with which the rifle is built bears responsibility for how well the shooter knows his weapon. A true custom rifle works with the shooter, and the shooter naturally falls into a pattern of letting the rifle do what it was designed to do.
This starts with the barrel, flows through the stock, is manipulated by the trigger, is directed by the scope, and repeated by and through the reciever design.
The harder it is to repeat yourself exactly through these components, the less often you will hit your mark.
The scope, and how it is attached is one way people regularly defeat themselves. It’s a parellel system that carries its own capability for precision. Most scopes will not allow you to shoot ten shots into less than an inch, no matter what rifle you’ve screwed them to. You simply have precision glass or you have not. Period. There is simply no way to improve your scope quality by any means other than your wallet.
So, to sum it all up, if you want precision, you have to get a system together that is capable of it. If you don’t, what you wish you had, and what you actually have, will always be distinctly separate things.
- August 19, 2018 at 12:29 pm #68800HarterParticipant
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GS in fact builds awe inspiring rifles both to the eye and the target . I have a couple .
Off the shelf .
Buy a couple of Savage 110E used rifles the birch stocks (or whatever they are) are stable and sound . Get the chamber leade and throats checked out . If they are good bed the action from the barrel nut shoulder back and go shoot them . When you get to changing the barrels etc the parts are there and can be readily done out in the shop . Midway at least for a while did sell a Savage rebarrel kit with the wrench , nut , HS gauge and barrel for about $40 more than just a barrel .
Get a long action .
Savage also feature interchangeable bolt heads . So when you wake up one morning and the 223/556 needs to be a 458 WM you go out pull the stock off toss it in the vise knock the nut loose un screw the barrel . Pull the bolt down change the head . Run the new nut down the barrel screw it down about half the threads slip the hs gauge in the bolt and chamber . Run the barrel down until it stops soft , tighten the nut to low torque value . Stick it back in the stock adjust the nut bedding and barrel channel and go try it out .
Yes there’s truing that can be done . There is always a better trigger , springs , firing pin , etc .
With the above you should be able to pick 3 cartridges , 2 rifles , 2 Scopes and for around $12-1400 be shooting MOA . If you need 2″ at 400 yd then you have to either pay someone like GS or buy and learn to use some very expensive tools which can run an estate sale $100 platform rifle right into a $15,000 tinker toy and never even break a sweat .
- August 19, 2018 at 5:08 pm #68801JniedbalskiParticipant
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Thanks for the replys. I have seen about every post here now.GS builds some awesome rifles.i just found the page about the rifle with the beautiful but plate it’s a work of art. I wanted to ask Tim about his rifles and prices but if I have to ask I can’t afford it. I don’t want to wast his time knowing right now I can hardely afford a cheep rifle with a good stock and scope. Thanks for making me thank about the whole package about accuracy. At first I didint thank about how cheep rings or a trigger could make that much difference. But now I know to look at all the parts
- August 20, 2018 at 10:05 am #68802GoodsteelKeymaster
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Yes, don’t be intimidated. Be EDUCATED.
I have a friend and client that buys Savage axis rifles and rebarrels them on his kitchen table. He hollers at me when he needs something he can’t handle, or wants me to validate his precision on my concrete bench. The guy uses Shilen match barrels, one piece rails, Warne rings, Vortex optics (Crossfire II), and he chambers them in light kicking wildcats like 277 Wolverine, 6X45, 6.5 Grendel etc etc etc, and he is getting sub MOA results on demand. He’s doing this by understanding what makes a rifle shoot and putting his aces in their places. It’s not ideal, and certainly not dirt cheap, but it’s got it where it counts. He knows the rules and functions strictly within them and enjoys the results (you can too).
The thing that makes this hard is all the misinformation floating around the internet. I mean, just by looking around with fresh eyes, you’d swear that powder selection is more important than bullet choice, that strict brass prep is more important than quality optics, and three shots demonstrate the MOA of a rifle.
The priority list in a rifle build is no different. You’ve got to keep your mind clear and stick to common sense like glue in order to sift your way through the BS, put things in context and order of priority, and devise a plan to execute a solid rifle build within your budget. This is very very doable, but do your research and UNDERSTAND the concept of rifle building (at least to a working degree). Do this, and you’ll cut through the fluff and enjoy some pretty impressive results for low money.
Feel free to ask questions.
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