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    • #25457
      Artful
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      http://soldiersystems.net/2016/03/03…dents-vehicle/

      Tactical Response Instructor Has Negligent Discharge Into Student’s Vehicle

      An unnamed Tactical Response instructor reportedly had a negligent discharge on 18 February, 2016 at the Sacrememto Valley Shooting Center in California into a student’s truck.
      The instructor was attempting to make a point by having all of the students throw their pistols to the ground. He then walked upon them telling the class that they were meant to get dirty and be used as tools. When he stepped on his own pistol, it fired and hit the truck. Fortunately, no one was hurt.

      Although there was some initial information online, it has taken awhile for it to coalesce after some of it was initially removed from select Internet forums. According to this Yelp! review, the truck got two new tires but a student who asked for a refund after witnessing the incident, was denied.

      Then, this post appeared on Cal Guns. It verifies that the incident had in fact happened and details the subsequent actions taken by the gun club where the course took place.

      http://bearingarms.com/tactical-resp…tudents-truck/

      Tactical Response BANNED After Instructor Negligently Discharges Into Student’s Truck
      Posted by Bob Owens on March 4, 2016 at 1:32 pm

      James Yeager’s shooting school Tactical Response has always had reputation for being as controversial and colorful as Yeager himself.
      People who are far better qualified than I am have looked at the school’s training methods and philosophies and have found them questionable (to put it mildly), but I’ve largely avoided talking about the school because I simply didn’t have any solid indication that what Tactical Response was doing was a threat to the safety of it’s students… until now.

      In a mid-February class held at the Folsom Shooting Club/Sacramento Valley Shooting Center, a Tactical Response instructor had a grossly irresponsible and pointless negligent discharge, as noted on CalGuns.Net.

      I am creating this thread as a “last resort” after reasonable attempts (by me and others) to contact Tactical Response for comment and clarification had failed.

      It is my opinion that firearms training organizations should err on the side of being overly communicative when it comes to safety and incidents where student safety are or have been jeopardized.

      I am not reporting the following events as fact at this time, rather as a report from a trusted source, but still awaiting confirmation, denial or clarification from those that have first-hand knowledge.

      So, as reported to me:

      During the recent (Feb 17-18) Tactical Response “Fighting Pistol” course near Sacramento, an instructor instructed the students to throw their pistols on the ground, then the instructor proceeded to stomp on the pistols to make some point along the lines of “these things aren’t meant to be pretty, they’re meant to be tools, so treat them as such” (quotes mine). He then threw his own pistol onto the ground and stomped on it-resulting in a round being fired parallel to the line of students, into a student’s truck, with a possible ricochet towards who-knows-what.

      Now, we can discuss the validity of that exercise (do we need to?), but my central issue here is that when the Tactical Response was questioned both privately and publicly about the incident (by me and others), emails were not responded to, comments on various social media outlets were deleted, etc.

      As I mention above, if you are in the firearms training business, your students and potential students are entitled to know the operative safety protocols while training with your organization. In turn, the students should be aware of failures of these protocols and efforts to remediate these failures. If these simple concepts are ignored, you are probably dealing with an unsafe (by definition) organization.

      We contacted the the Folsom Shooting Club/Sacramento Valley Shooting Center about the incident, and they gave Bearing Arms the following written response, banning Tactical Response from returning to the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center.

      Folsom Shooting Club takes safety seriously, as any well run range must. We have well documented policies and procedures to assure a safe range for all shooters and guests. A safety issue was reported to us regarding a private training class and we immediately spoke to persons with firsthand knowledge of the reported incident. The results of our investigation were reported to the board of directors and our board made what it believes to be the best decision for the club, its members and guests. Tactical Response will no longer be permitted to conduct training activities on our facility.

      Bearing Arms sent Tactical Response an email yesterday asking the training company to respond to the claim that an instructor had a negligent discharge that endangered the lives of students.

      Tactical Response has been curiously non-responsive.

      Idiot

    • #25460
      JPHolla
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      Yep…California. At least their laws keep them all so safe

    • #25466
      VANN
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      I hate to say it, but I wouldn’t pay anybody money that’s going to tell me to throw a gun on the ground. I don’t own any Safe Queens, but I’m not into doing intentional damage to my firearms either.

    • #25467
      Goodsteel
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      Then you will never be a real baddass. Your respect of firearms has permanently stunted your baddassery, and your badassometer will never swing the needle past 3 or 4.
      LOL!

    • #25469
      VANN
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      Oh, well I guess I better go buy a hat with velcro on it, some tatical pants, and one of those cool vest with the plate slots and all of those mag pouches, I mean clip pouches to hold all of my 30 round mags, I mean clips.

      I wonder how hard it would be to put rails on my old Daewoo Dr200 then I could hang a light and a Lazer on it a and some of those really cool 45 degree sights.

    • #25470
      dverna
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      Darwin Award nomine??

      And who is stupid enough to follow the idiot’s instruction to throw their pistol to the ground?

      Nothing surprises me anymore.

    • #25475
      Artful
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      Wonder what kind of gun his was to ND/AD when he stepped on it – surely not a 1911.

    • #25480
      Goodsteel
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      Tactical facepalm: proof there is a demotivational poster for every occasion.

    • #25481
      lar45
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      He must be a legend in his own mind. lol
      There is no way I would throw one of my guns on the ground and step on it just for a class.

    • #25482
      DaveInGA
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      My Father, an old WWII Marine and possibly the toughest man I’ve ever met, killed more men than he wanted to count during the fighting in the Pacific. He told me the weapons were babied, kept clean and dry and not tossed to the ground at any time. He did comment, however, on the British Marines coming off a ship for and R&R session and tossing their weapons in a huge pile, thereby banging them up. “I felt those men would be lucky if their sights and other critical items were not damaged and fail when they needed them to.”

      Dad was never, ever a tough acting guy. He thought tatoos were generally foolishness. He spoke softly, like most WWII vets you see in interviews on the History Channel. I did, however, see him yank a man through an open window of a car like a strand of spaghetti and beat the mess out of him when the man’s careless driving threatened harm to my Dad’s family, who was in my Dad’s car at the time. I was just a kid then.

      I don’t know the moron instructor at that range, but if I were the student there, I’d be talking to my credit card company or something to get my money back. Foul language and false “tough guy” bravado does not make a man, nor does it make him a qualified weapons instructor. Courage and Valor under the toughest odds make a man.

    • #25491
      PB234
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      Dave, try this as part of your father’s wise economic comment of 20+ years ago.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcBWlblRDjg

      Throw a firearm to the ground and step on it? Great way to take care of a tool that might eventually be critical to your life. Understand and appreciate a tool showing signs of use and being broken in, but no idea why someone would chance intentional damage to their property.

      Those tats make him bullet proof?

    • #25497
      Dick
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      It is a general consensus among those who have actually operated and been tactical, that Yeager is a bag in which you store tools.

      You don’t throw weapons on the ground. Why? Because your life depends on them, and throwing your gun on the ground to “prove” something is about as smart as snorting gasoline. Weapons in a real OAF (Operator as F***) environment are lovingly cared for at every opportunity. Weapon’s maintenance and care is instilled in us at a young age, lol.

      Summary: Yeager is a mouth breather and played Call of Duty for an unhealthy amount of time.

    • #25670
      DaveInGA
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      Dick;n3871 wrote: It is a general consensus among those who have actually operated and been tactical, that Yeager is a bag in which you store tools.

      You don’t throw weapons on the ground. Why? Because your life depends on them, and throwing your gun on the ground to “prove” something is about as smart as snorting gasoline. Weapons in a real OAF (Operator as F***) environment are lovingly cared for at every opportunity. Weapon’s maintenance and care is instilled in us at a young age, lol.

      Summary: Yeager is a mouth breather and played Call of Duty for an unhealthy amount of time.

      That’s my evaluation of the YoYo above. Love the snorting gasoline perspective.:)

      took an M16 to the island of Grenada back when. I was there to work on helicopters that were called “mules” and were from Ft. Rucker, AL. Lotsa odd stuff on them and I had a degree in Electronics and two years experience working in a TV Repair Shop (find one of those nowdays if you can), so I knew how to fix things using just schematics and mechanical drawings. I couldn’t keep the rifle close enough, so they issued me a well used, multiple rebuild 1911A1 and shoulder holster. I’m guessing the pistol dated back to WWII and had been rebuilt last about the end of Vietnam. It was pretty rattly, but I took it, cleaned it, checked it (like my Dad had taught me when he taught me to shoot handguns), loaded it and stuck it in the holster.

      Not too long after that, I was afforded an opportunity to learn exactly why the 1911 was called the “Yankee Fist,” when, much to my shock, surprise and amazement, it became, in my moment of greated need, a part of my hand. I am thankful to my Dad for teaching me how to use it and thankful to John Moses Browning for designing it. I’ve shot a lot of other pistols since then, but if my rear end is in the sling and a pistol is all I have, I want that pistol to be a 1911 and I want it spotlessly clean, as I would want any weapon I carried. Even if I’m filthy as a pig in s*#t.

    • #25672
      Smoke4320
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      They are never going to stomp my ghost gun with its 1/2 second fire rate 100 rd clip on the ground 🙂 🙂 HAAA HAA Oh wait I have a 1/2 second per bolt throw 358 Winchester
      Instructor is a dumb assssss ….should be fired

    • #25783
      Dick
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      DaveInGA;n4075 wrote:

      That’s my evaluation of the YoYo above. Love the snorting gasoline perspective.:)

      took an M16 to the island of Grenada back when. I was there to work on helicopters that were called “mules” and were from Ft. Rucker, AL. Lotsa odd stuff on them and I had a degree in Electronics and two years experience working in a TV Repair Shop (find one of those nowdays if you can), so I knew how to fix things using just schematics and mechanical drawings. I couldn’t keep the rifle close enough, so they issued me a well used, multiple rebuild 1911A1 and shoulder holster. I’m guessing the pistol dated back to WWII and had been rebuilt last about the end of Vietnam. It was pretty rattly, but I took it, cleaned it, checked it (like my Dad had taught me when he taught me to shoot handguns), loaded it and stuck it in the holster.

      Not too long after that, I was afforded an opportunity to learn exactly why the 1911 was called the “Yankee Fist,” when, much to my shock, surprise and amazement, it became, in my moment of greated need, a part of my hand. I am thankful to my Dad for teaching me how to use it and thankful to John Moses Browning for designing it. I’ve shot a lot of other pistols since then, but if my rear end is in the sling and a pistol is all I have, I want that pistol to be a 1911 and I want it spotlessly clean, as I would want any weapon I carried. Even if I’m filthy as a pig in s*#t.

      The 1911 you had issued probably had been around the world many times, lol. The Marine Corps’ original MEUSOC pistols were built on frames that had probably seen at least 3 Major wars (WWII, Korea, Vietnam) before they swapped to Caspian/Springfield frames/slides, and so on an so forth. Now the Colt M45A1 is the Recon/MARSOC pistol.

      I was never issued the 1911, and the Beretta M9A1 has been my issued side arm ever since Uncle Sugar decreed me eligible to have the M9A1 as one of my TO/E weapons. Us ‘Normal’ Marines get the Beretta, and depending on MOS and billet you don’t use or qualify on one until you are a SNCO. I would be equally happy with either a 1911 or Beretta M9A1 in hand. Not to say one is better than the other, but I am familiar with both and believe both to be equally capable weapons. Anywho, just a bit of rambling there.

      What you type is absolutely true. Weapons maintenance comes before you take care of your self. Regardless of the operations OP Tempo, etc, whenever you rest you clean weapons first, maintain gear, take care of what needs done before the next op, then finally eat and rest.

      I don’t know why people think running your gun through mud, throwing it on the ground, not cleaning it, and treating it like crap will ‘prove’ it is reliable for ‘combat’. When the reality is that weapons maintenance is conducted as frequently as possible in a combat environment because a clean an well oiled weapon is a happy and reliable weapon.

      This is a good thread!

    • #25818
      Artful
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      But wait, there’s more . . .
      http://www.thegunpage.com/crybully-j…charge/2598780

      CRYBULLY: James Yeager Responds To The Tactical Response Negligent Discharge

      Posted by Bob Owens on March 10, 2016 at 9:07 pm

      Last week, we reported on the negligent discharge by a Tactical Response instructor in a “Fighting Pistol” class held for the Folsom Shooting Club at the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center in mid-February.

      James Yeager of Tactical Response has now posted a video reply about the incident to YouTube.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9LvWtnIZpw
      * NOTE: Mr. Yeager has a very foul mouth – Don’t click if you can’t take 4 letter words repeatedly spewed

      Mr. Yeager made some statements in his reply that aren’t sitting well with Vu Pham, President of Folsom Shooting Club, who sent me (and others) the following written response to Yeager’s video.

      All,
      Before I get into this please note:

      • I am not a “Yeager or Tactical Response hater”. I know very little about the outfit and Mr. Yeager.
      • FSC is not here to debate whose Kung Fu is stronger in the gun fighting world. I am sure Tactical Response teaches things that can be useful to certain individuals or else they would not be in business.
      • Our response is solely based on the incident that occurred on the 18th of February.

      Since I am not interesting enough to have my own YouTube channel, I will reply to Mr. Yeager’s video via this
      letter.

      1. At about 4:30 in the video Mr. Yeager goes into recapping the ND, but either chose to leave out the important details or was not informed of them.
      1. The ND did NOT occur in a shooting bay. It happened outside of Range 11, outside of what we consider the “shooting area”.
      2. The gun was not pointed at the berm. The F-250 struck was sitting outside of the bay in the parking area of Range 11. The round exited the truck tire and impacted a storage shed outside of the shooting bay. This would be impossible IF the gun was pointed down range at our impact berm. Range 11 is a 200 yard bay used primarily for rifle shooting.

      At 7:00 in his video Mr. Yeager mentions that the Sac Valley Shooting Center never tried to reach out to him to get his side of the story.

      Called us all liars.

      I would like to point out a few things here as well.

      1. Never and nowhere did we claim to have attempted to contact Mr. Yeager or Tactical Response. He was 100% correct about us not reaching out to him.
      2. The ND occurred on Day 2 of Fight Pistol on the AM of February 18th
      3. FSC Range Staff was notified via email on February 29th by a concerned member who had family that took the course.
      4. FSC Operations Manager, Mike Calvo, emailed me on March 1st and I immediately asked Mike to conduct a full investigation.
      5. Mike Calvo spoke to the member that initially contacted us hoping to speak directly with his family members that witnessed the ND. FSC respected the family member’s wishes to not be involved and to remain anonymous. The investigation continued.
      6. I was made aware of a thread on Calguns and posted a reply there asking for any witnesses to contact me directly so that we can get the facts straight.
      7. Mike and I both agree (as Mr. Yeager pointed out in his video) that things do get blown out of proportion and that we needed to talk to students in the class and witnessed the firearm discharge from close proximity. The two I spoke to were 3 feet away. They were also a part of the conversation with the instructor that prompted him to draw his loaded pistol from holster.
      8. After talking to several participants in the course, two of whom witnessed the ND at close proximity, I reported back to our board of directors my findings. A decision was made to not allow Tactical Response to conduct training at Sac Valley Shooting Center any longer. This was posted on Calguns on March 3rd.
      9. I instructed our staff from our business office to send an official letter to Tactical Response notifying them of our decision as I believe it was the professional thing to do.
      10. I posted an official response from FSC on March 3rd @ 9:35am. This resides on page 2 on the thread found on Calguns.

      One would think between February 18th and February 29th (10 days) someone from Tactical
      Response would have contacted FSC to notify us of the incident, nope. We were blindsided by this whole thing.

      Why did we not talk to Tactical Response? Why didn’t they talk to us? Why didn’t James Yeager himself call our range office after he found out about the incident on February 20th? Mr. Yeager and Tactical Response had ample time to contact us to clear up this mess.

      I am sure people will ask “would the outcome of our decision to ban Tactical Response from using our facility be any different?” Probably not, to be honest. This was not a simple case of a negligent discharge. It was the gross negligence by an instructor that led to our decision.

      Instead of dealing with this situation in a professional manner, we were forced to deal with it on the forums of the WWW, YouTube channels, and Facebook.

      We have dozens of training outfits that call Sac Valley Shooting Center their home range. We have thousands of people visit our range every month shooting countless rounds during competition, training, and good ole plinking. SVSC host over a dozen shooting disciplines and clubs that call SVSC home.

      Every single person on the Board of Directors for FSC is a shooter in various disciplines and understands that NDs happen and accidents happen. We Californians did not freak out because a negligent discharge went down range safely into a berm. We acted due to gross negligence by a company’s instructor that luckily did not get anyone seriously injured or killed. Folsom Shooting Club/SVSC believes that safety is first and foremost and we always choose to do what we feel is best for our club.

      There will always be critics for both sides and I do not believe anyone gained from this incident. Tactical Response lost a facility they can conduct training at. Sacramento Valley Shooting Center lost an option for those who would like to take their style of training. Both sides had to deal with a sh*t storm via email, social media, text messages, and phone calls.

      Please see an email correspondence between Brian Bragg and Mr. Yeager below. Brian was a student in the course and an eye witness to the ND. All I care about in this letter is the date and time showing that Mr. Yeager was notified of this incident well in advance of FSC being aware.

      With regards to “taking [our] state back” FSC has been at the front of that fight for years. Mr. Yeager is not the first organization to be banned from our facility, but he has joined the list that includes the California Department of Justice. Many years ago we informed DoJ, at financial loss to our club, that because of their support of anti-gun legislation they would no longer be permitted on our ranges.

      We were plaintiffs in cases seeking to invalidate legislation that required shooters and dealers to register all ammunition purchases and that also prevented out of state purchase of ammunition.

      Many of our members are very active in the political and legal systems to restore our rights. We and our members are at the very front lines of the battle to protect and restore the Second Amendment not only in California, but in the United States.

      On behalf of the Folsom Shooting Club Board of Directors and Range Management, thank you to all that have supported us throughout this mess.

      Sincerely,

      Vu Pham
      Folsom Shooting Club – President

      Both Yeager and Pham have made their views clear.

      I will, however, respond to a point made by Mr. Yeager at 7:30 in his video. He stated that, “If you read an article, and they said they tried to contact us, they are liars.”

      Well, we did indeed use the contact form on the Tactical Response Web site in an attempt to reach out to them the night before we ran out story, which we in fact noted in our story at the time. Bearing Arms sent Tactical Response an email yesterday asking the training company to respond to the claim that an instructor had a negligent discharge that endangered the lives of students.
      Tactical Response has been curiously non-responsive. We received a pre-programmed canned response that the form submission had been successful.

      Does that mean that Mr. Yeager or a Tactical Response employee received and then chose to ignore my email asking for comment by noon the following day before we published? Not necessarily. Contact forms can and will fail. Ours has had problems on occasion. I’m willing to give Mr. Yeager the benefit of the doubt on whether he received our email asking for comment, and I understand that he may feel under intense pressure at the moment. I don’t take it personally that he called folks who attempted to contact Tactical Response “liars.”

      He’s simply wrong on that point, and that’s okay.

      It says something about Mr. Yeager’s character, however, that instead of making a sincere and unqualified apology, that he feels compelled to attack the victims of the negligent discharge (the students of the Folsom Gun Club), California’s gun culture, and anyone else who would dare criticize his instructor’s dangerous behavior. Yeager’s passive-aggressive feigned apology ends in a grand “eff you” to anyone who criticized the incident.

      I’m not an expert, but that wasn’t a very “tactical response” to a high-profile and legitimate concern. It instead seems like yet another negligent discharge.

    • #25839
      Goodsteel
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      That’s not the response I expected. Yeager really needs to do a little bit of PR reconnaissance.

      I should have saved my tactical facepalm poster for a response to this video. Unfortunately, posting it twice is redundant.

    • #25842
      Dick
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      Yaeger rates a double dose of the tactical facepalm, lol.

    • #25855
      Artful
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      Maybe a triple

    • #25862
      Goodsteel
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      Does anybody else notice that video starts off with Yeager putting himself behind a bunch of underprivilaged kids, and ends with him flying the bird at those who would hold him and his buddies accountable?
      Hiding behind kids and throwing insults. Not cool bro.

    • #26521
      Reg
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      Just what did that guy think made him an “expert”. ??

    • #26522
      Smoke4320
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      Goodsteel;n4272 wrote:

      I should have saved my tactical facepalm poster for a response to this video. Unfortunately, posting it twice is redundant.

      or could be called a double tap 🙂 🙂

    • #26526
      Dick
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      ^^Now that is TACTICAL!

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