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    • #29521
      Anonymous
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      A young man(18) who I am mentoring in the hobby, just bought a new Weatherby Vanguard with a 1 in 10 twist.. While I do not, nor have I ever cast or reloaded for 308, I do have a set of reloading dies and a couple of molds. One is a Lee309-150-F and the other is an RCBS 308-200-SIL. If needed I would be willing to get a mold so he can cast for his new toy. He worked very hard to save up for this gun and used the last of his earnings for shooting on a nice Leupold scope to go on it. Good kid! Any recommendations?

    • #29522
      Scharfschuetze
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      I’d try both designs. I’m inclined to think that the 200 grain Silhouette bullet in the 1 in 10″ twist might be best, but I get good results with a 150 grain cast RCBS bullet in my 30/06 rifles with a 1 in 10″ twist. My 308 cast bullet experience has been mostly with 110 grain plinking loads with 32/20 deisngs or with the 170 grain 311041 bullet in a 1 in 12″ barrel. At a guess, if you size to .310″ you’ll probably be fine unless the barrel is out of spec in its groove diameter.

      Any of the easy to ignite stick powders from SR 4759 to 4895 ought to work just fine. There’s lots of load data out there online or in manuals so you’ll have a lot of data to choose from. Your velocity goal will probably dictate the best powder to select.

      Good luck getting that 18 year old on the right track for loading and shooting. It’s a very rewarding task.

    • #29524
      Anonymous
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      if he is going to use it for hunting / target try the 200g first but both those moulds should work

    • #29529
      popper
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      I have a 31-165B 4x I don’t use anymore that works great in my 1:10 AR uppers. I got a modified one (165C) for PC coating. IIRC I only used (B) it twice. Ogive is like a 168Amax with a FN. I push it pretty hard (2700 in the 24″) with 4% Sb, WD.1 1/2 MOA due to me being old.

    • #29533
      Larry Gibson
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      I, too, would certainly give both of your bullets a try. With the Lee 150 any easy to ignite powders from Bullseye up through the mentioned 4759 (if you can find any) will be very suitable for 800 to 1900 fps. With that 200 gr Sil bullet I’d just load 28 gr 4895 with 3/4 gr dacron filler under it.

      Cast of a good 94-3-3 or #2 alloy, sized .310 – .311, lubed with a good alox based lube (50/50, 2500+ or others) and a good GC the lad shoul get quite good accuracy and lots of enjoyment out of that rifle.

      Larry Gibson

    • #29537
      Anonymous
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      Thanks for all the feedback. At least I know that those two molds have some application for his 308. I have a variety of powders, 4895 being one of them. I think we will try the 200 Sil with 4895 to start with. Never have used Dacron so I guess I had better run to the fabric section of Walmart. I have read several different threads in the past about the use of Dacron, just a little and light and fluffy. Larry, you stated 3/4 gr of Dacron. Is that grain or gram? I would guess grain but just to make sure.

    • #29552
      Larry Gibson
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      Grain.

      Doesn’t have to be exactly 3/4 gr or even exactly to the 10th gr per cartridge. It can vary a couple 10th but the key is to use enough to fill the space between powder and bullet with fluffed dacron. I get the dacron in sheet form called “batting”. I then cut it into strips 3/4″ or so wide. No need to be exact on the cut bu a sharp scissor is helpful.

      I then eyeball the size of chunk I need and snip it off. Weighing a few different size chunks will quickly give you the size to snip off. Again, a slightly larger chunk that slightly compressed when the bullet is seated is ok. A smaller one that does not fill the space is not.

      Takes longer to explain how to do it than to do it.

      Larry Gibson

    • #29556
      Goodsteel
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      I’m glad that fellow got started on a proper rifle. The vanguard is usually a 1.5MOA gun (that’s true cone of fire. Three shot groups can be well under 1″) pretty consistent across the board. The actions are smooth as glass and have a very comfortable “clockety clock” feel to them. The safety is smooth and doesn’t make a lot of sound and is pretty solid.
      It’s the kind of rifle a young man can be proud to own and will be more accurate than he is for quite some time (which is important IMHO).

      The added bonus of getting him started with cast bullets is commendable. That means he’ll shoot a lot and often.
      I agree with the advice given, but I can tell you right away I would be biased toward the 200Gr SIL, and Larry’s advice is spot on.

      The 150 would be my second choice, but oh the fun that could be had with 20 pieces of brass, a brick of primers and a pound or two of Unique! I’d just lube those with 45-45-10 and have a ball. That combo spells one thing to me: Trigger time. Lot’s and lots of trigger time which is what he needs.

    • #29558
      LenH
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      Since we are on the subject of .308 and cast bullets. I have a Remington 700 with a 1-12 twist. I have a NOE 311-198 SP mold. I have been experimenting with Reloader 15 powder
      starting with 28 grains on up to 32.0 grains. I am not getting very good groups with any of these loads but it gets better around 31.5 grains. I have never tried the dacron filler but I’m
      willing to try anything at this point.

      I have shot this rifle with 168 grain HPBT J-Words bullets and 42.5 grains of RL-15 and on a good day could cover a 10 shot group with a quarter (100 yds.) but that was on a good day.
      I have only been working with the cast bullet on about 3 outings, so I’m open to suggestions.

      Len Hogan

      Thanks for the add Tim. I always enjoyed you post on the other website.

    • #29560
      Goodsteel
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      LenH;n9001 wrote: Since we are on the subject of .308 and cast bullets. I have a Remington 700 with a 1-12 twist. I have a NOE 311-198 SP mold. I have been experimenting with Reloader 15 powder
      starting with 28 grains on up to 32.0 grains. I am not getting very good groups with any of these loads but it gets better around 31.5 grains. I have never tried the dacron filler but I’m
      willing to try anything at this point.

      I have shot this rifle with 168 grain HPBT J-Words bullets and 42.5 grains of RL-15 and on a good day could cover a 10 shot group with a quarter (100 yds.) but that was on a good day.
      I have only been working with the cast bullet on about 3 outings, so I’m open to suggestions.

      Len Hogan

      Thanks for the add Tim. I always enjoyed you post on the other website.

      Hey Len, Welcome to GSF.

      Are you stuck on R15? Could you try some 4895?
      Only reason I ask is because when Larry posts a load it’s usually a real darn good place to start.

      You don’t mention the accuracy you are getting with the bullet, what the bullet is made of, how hard the bullet is, what lube, whether it’s plain base or GC, or what size you are making them.
      Could you elaborate a little?
      I’ve never shot that bullet in 308 with that powder, but it seems like your all over it like a cheap suit.

      Also, have you had a look in the throat of that rifle? I cant tell you how many Remington barrels I have seen that have been reamed off center so the rifling comes all the way to the neck on one side while the opposing side has a lead about 1/4″ long. Jacketed bullets can deal with this misalignment, but it can really screw up cast loads of any kind. You might check that out.

    • #29566
      Larry Gibson
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      Len

      Goodsteel is correct on trying another powder. While RL15 can give exemplary results with top end jacketed loads in the .308W I never could get it to burn efficiently at lower cast bullet psi’s even with heavier cast bullets and a dacron filler. A switch to 4895 is recommended as sometime what we want to use just isn’t going to work.

      Larry Gibson

    • #29568
      Anonymous
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      Thanks for the clarification Larry. I’m taking a day off tomorrow and will pick up some batting. I got some Reloader 7 for use in my 223 Rem (Ruger Hawkeye) and wondered if it was a good choice for any of my other rifle loads(CAST). Presently I cast for 270, 30-06, 30-30, 303 Brit, 6.5 Jap and 30-40 Krag.

      Thanks for the post Tim. I figured you would agree with Larry!! Always nice to have more input>

      Jay

    • #29577
      LenH
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      Tim & Larry,

      I am not married to RL-15, it is what I have right now. I have Unique & Bullseye also. I was using Varget with the J-word bullets and switched to RL-15 when Varget got hard to
      find in 2008. I have an unopened 5# jug of the stuff but like I said I’m open for anything. I’ll check again with Sportsman’s Warehouse I think they have 4895.

      I the alloy I started with is Hardball (92-6-2) that I mixed using the alloy calculator. I have Randy Lee’s TAC1 and the bullet is gas checked with Gator checks I got from Al when I
      ordered the mold. I will tweak the alloy probably to 94-3-3 if that is necessary. I may go with a powder coated bullet although the first attempt was a comedy of errors but that is another
      story all together. The card game 52 pick up comes to mind. All though the powder coated bullets gave better groups.

      I slugged the barrel and it was dead nut .308, I haven’t done a pound cast yet but prolly should. The bullets are sized .310 and like I said the lube is TAC-1, again it is what I have on hand.
      The gun still has less that 500 rounds down the pipe. I try and keep a detailed log on what works and what don’t.

      The best group I got with the RL-15 was 3 bullets touching and 2 fliers and the spread was about 2 1/2 inches and that was with PC bullet. But like I said I’ve only had 2 outings
      with this bullet. I guess it is an experiment in progress.

      I shoot Bulleye matches on the 1st & 3rd Saturday of each month (when I don’t have to work) so I don’t have much time to mess with the rifle.

      Thanks for the help
      Len H.

    • #29579
      popper
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      I will tweak the alloy probably to 94-3-3 if that is necessary 3 or 4% Sb should work, I don’t use tin. Cut some of your hardball with some pure should do the trick. Agree with the 4895, it burns good even downloaded, filler may help. ESPC will work for rifle, I haven’t gotten any good groups with ASBBDT. I get my dacron filler from chewed up doggie toys. I have G.S.s with the vanguard each, sweet rifle (243). HS isn’t the same for both.

    • #29603
      Anonymous
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      Well I got the young fellow out to the range today (kinda). The rifle range had some event going on but there was nobody at the pistol range and he desperately what to shoot that vanguard, so we set up at he pistol range (50 yard max). I had bore sighted the rifle and he had brought some 180 gr jacketed with him, so he let loose with 5 shots, three in the bull and two cutting the top of the bull. I thought, not bad for a rifle that has only been bore sighted and a newbee in the drivers seat. Then I had him shoot ten of the 200-SIL’s. The group was slightly larger but still inside 2″ but about 3″ low. Next he tired ten of the Lee 150 gr with about the same result as the 200-SIL’s. , on centerline but again 3″ low. We had to stop at that point because other pistol shooters showed up. Granted it was a marginal test at 50 yards but all things considering it was a promising start. Thanks for the advice guys.

      Larry, I went with your recommendations(to the tee) for the 200’s and also when with Unique (10 gr) on the 150’s. Dacron filler on both. Thanks again, Jay

    • #29624
      LenH
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      I found Larry’s post about Dacron fillers on the CastBoolit site. I prints out 2 full pages, good info. I’m going to read it and reread it.
      I guess you can teach an old dog a new trick,

    • #29641
      LenH
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      I powder coated some more of those bullets again last night. I put the tray in the toaster oven and set the bullets on the tray but the slightest bump
      would knock several over. I only got 60 on the tray and 4 fell over and I left them down but it didn’t seem to affect them. I turned the oven on
      and let the digital controller do its thing. I cooked them for 15 minutes and they came out pretty good. The ASBBDT does better with pistol bullets
      but I need a bigger container for this long rifle bullets.

      I’m goung to get a roll of the batting that Larry recommends and give it a try. I picked up some IMR4895, that is what I was able to find. I’ll load
      some ladder loads and head to the range on Friday. I’m taking the day off to get some trigger time, it is still cheaper than a shrink.

      I wish I had known about the dacon filler before, my son’s dog a 5# fox terrior Chihuahua mix thinks he is as bad as a pitbull. He can tear up
      a chewtoy with a squeeker (he hates the squeeker) 5 minutes after you throw it to him. I have thrown away piles of the stuff. My son moved
      out and took the dog with him but he stopped buying chew toys.

    • #29657
      oldblinddog
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      LenH;n9001 wrote: Since we are on the subject of .308 and cast bullets. I have a Remington 700 with a 1-12 twist. I have a NOE 311-198 SP mold. I have been experimenting with Reloader 15 powder
      starting with 28 grains on up to 32.0 grains. I am not getting very good groups with any of these loads but it gets better around 31.5 grains. I have never tried the dacron filler but I’m
      willing to try anything at this point.

      I have shot this rifle with 168 grain HPBT J-Words bullets and 42.5 grains of RL-15 and on a good day could cover a 10 shot group with a quarter (100 yds.) but that was on a good day.
      I have only been working with the cast bullet on about 3 outings, so I’m open to suggestions.

      Len Hogan

      Thanks for the add Tim. I always enjoyed you post on the other website.

      Try 25 grains of Varget with that bullet. No filler. Should do the trick.

    • #29660
      LenH
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      I haven’t been able to find Varget in my parts for several years. I switched to RL-15 on the advice of an old friend who used it in benchrest.
      It was easier to find and shot about the same, at least for me it did.

      Thanks for the advice. I might just try that with my experiment in progress.

    • #29661
      LenH
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      Larry,

      I found some IMR4895, went to Wally World and picked up some batting. I loaded 10 rounds each, 28.0 gr., 28.5 gr & 29.0 gr of the 4895. I was able to get consistent 1.0 grain tufts of dacron and put them in the cased with a pair of needle nose tweezers. I made sure the dacron was springy before I
      seated the bullet.
      I have Friday off and plan on going to the range for a test, I’ll post the results soon after I get back.

      Len Hogan

    • #34166
      upinthehills
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      I have the same question, so I thought I would add on to this thread. If you folks would rather I can start another though. I was thinking I’m just like the kid above getting started but as I read I remembered I’m 60 now, if it helps I do have a 14 year old son that we’re starting in this hobby together. 🙂 We’ve been shooting 22LR in an antique Savage from about 1940 with peep sights, we do our local club’s egg silhouette shoots. A few months ago I meant to get a 22 we could put a scope on, but came home that day with a .308.

      We’re only shooting targets, mostly 100 yards, but we’d like to enter some matches or find places with longer ranges say 200-300 yards. We’ve worked our way through a few boxes of Federal Gold Match and I have saved the brass and hand loaded it once or twice so far. This rifle was a big jump for us, so I have been loading low power rounds to start. H4895 at %60-%70 and Trail Boss with 125 gr and 150 gr bullets, Sierra TMK and Nosler Ballistic Tip.

      We need a lot of practice and my mind is so full of questions it’s hard to know where to start. I’ve like to do some casting, it’s something I did as a kid with scrap lead I used to find. That may explain some things! Another forum I looked at had a 150 page thread on painting your bullets which seemed to discuss the colors but not what the paint was made of…

      Our .308 is a Savage M12 varmint rifle with a 1 in 10 twist. So I learned here that means less than about 2000 FPS because of RPM. I also learned maybe it makes sense to get a mold with both GC and lead base bullet cavities?

      I think I’m looking for accuracy so hunting performance is not an issue. I’m really struggling to understand issues of diameter and number and size of lube grooves. How come my 22 bullets don’t have grooves?

      Looking at NOE, I like the 310-165-FN-30XCB, 311-152-RN 311466, also the RCBS “Sil” style. Do I need a bullet with a crimp groove?

      Lastly I saw mentioned here above the importance of chamber concentricity with the bore. I think I have a problem here. I have been trying to measure my start of rifling with a dummy round that I marked the bullet with a sharpie. It gets rifling marks on one side of the bullet but also a scuff mark on the same side from the chamber wall just below the rifling. It seems to shoot the match ammo well though…

    • #34169
      Goodsteel
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      Upinthehills, welcome to GSF.
      Wow, where to start!…….

      OK, your alloy: should be Lyman #2 or, if you cut it 50/50 with pure scrap lead you can make it go further and still have a great alloy. Without a doubt, Lyman#2 is the plug and play answer.
      The bullet: should be my 30XCB bullet available from NOE molds, or the Lyman 311466. These are the best bullets I know of for your specific application.
      Lube: Use White Label Lube’s 2500=. Doesn’t get better than that.
      Speed: Yes, stay about 1950FPS and you will have reliable precision from that rifle. Expect larger groups than jacketed though.

      It is unlikely, but possible that the rifle has an off center throat. I have seen a Model 10 sent to me from Florida that had a badly off center throat. I set it back to the owner and precision was 3 times better with jacketed loads.
      If you have good eyes, remove the bolt from the rifle and point it at a light source. Peer through the action and look at the throat. If it’s off center, you should be able to see it plainly. You’ll see very clear throat marks leading up one side of the rifling and what seems like rifling that goes all the way to the chamber neck on the other. If you see this, it’s not doing you any favors, and you should send the rifle to me at a convenient time for a setback.

    • #34181
      popper
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      I started with#2 and an accurate 31-165(A? IIRC) using H335. WD & PCd. The 31-165 was designed (not ny me) for the 308 throat. I shoot it from an AR so not seated to the lands. I’ve worked up a better alloy but this target is @ 2400 fps @100, not my best but an indicator. Group on left is 308W, others are 30/30. Not too hard to do. I’m considerably older than you so eyes aren’t that good.
      .

    • #34183
      Goodsteel
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      Not a bad group popper.

    • #34190
      upinthehills
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      Thanks for the help, Tim. I’d be happy to start with your mold and they are in stock. It seems you want me to crowd the RPM limit a bit, so that means I should only consider the GC version?

      I’ll buy some Lyman #2 at Rotometals. I don’t have a source yet for scrap lead, but will start looking. Maybe I will buy the ingots of range scrap too.

      Can I pan lube with the White Label Lube 2500+? I’d like to avoid buying an expensive lube press for a while if I can.

      Will I need to size these bullets and can I use a Lee unit for that? I tired to measure my rifle’s muzzle with a dial caliper and it seems tight if anything. This rifle also has small lands and large grooves. It’s hard to measure with a caliper. Can I slug it with a bullet from my mold when it arrives or will it be too hard of a casting ( Lyman#2 )? I will try to check the chamber in sunlight tomorrow.

      I’m very interested in the issues about accuracy, but maybe I can find a better place in this forum for questions on that.

      Popper, I can’t believe the number of variations on those 31-165 molds. How does one even figure that a certain mold is designed for a .308 throat? I see 30-30 mentioned a few times times, but the descriptions are pretty sparse…

    • #34193
      Goodsteel
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      upinthehills;n15077 wrote: Thanks for the help, Tim. I’d be happy to start with your mold and they are in stock. It seems you want me to crowd the RPM limit a bit, so that means I should only consider the GC version?

      You should consider a GC mandatory for anything that’s going to shoot 1400FPS or faster. Understand, I’m not saying that when you pull the trigger, suddenly nothing exits the muzzle. This is about precision and hitting your mark repeatably.

      I’ll buy some Lyman #2 at Rotometals. I don’t have a source yet for scrap lead, but will start looking. Maybe I will buy the ingots of range scrap too.

      If you go for scrap metals, keep your eyes peeled for Linotype. You can make any alloy from that.

      Can I pan lube with the White Label Lube 2500+? I’d like to avoid buying an expensive lube press for a while if I can.

      Of course. However, with my bullet, you might try using a tuna fish can on a hot plate and “dip lubing” the bullets after the GCs are seated in place. The lube grooves are so small, the surface tension will hold enough lube to get the job done perfectly.

      Will I need to size these bullets and can I use a Lee unit for that?

      Absolutely. If for no other reason than to seat the gas checks and crimp them in place correctly. The method I use is to cast the bullets, then press the checks on the shanks, then apply a very light coat of imperial sizing wax, or a spritz of case lube and run the bullet through a .310 sizer (you may need to buy the sizer and correct bushing from Al Nelson which I also helped design, or hone out a Lee .309 sizer to .310). After the bullets are sized, then I dip lube them by dipping them in melted lube till the bullet warms enough to break the surface tension (about 3 seconds) and run them through the sizer again. This works perfectly.

      I tired to measure my rifle’s muzzle with a dial caliper and it seems tight if anything.

      It either is or it is not. If something “seems” like it’s tight, or large, or big, or small etc etc etc you’re using the wrong method to measure. Caliper nibs are not good for this. Run a few patches coated with Imperial sizing wax through your barrel, then push a soft egg sinker through and measure with a micrometer. That’s the last word for barrel size.

      This rifle also has small lands and large grooves. It’s hard to measure with a caliper.

      Yes it is hard to measure, but your land and groove characteristics do not matter in this case. As I said, use the right tools. A micrometer and a lead slug does not lie and is very easy to get real numbers from.

      Can I slug it with a bullet from my mold when it arrives or will it be too hard of a casting ( Lyman#2 )? I will try to check the chamber in sunlight tomorrow.

      Certainly not. Do not attempt anything of the sort. You are sure to ruin your barrel trying to get that hard bullet through there with a punch or rod. You might give my thread in Articles a read:
      https://www.goodsteelforum.com/articles/26-just-a-few-tips-for-new-rifle-casters

      I’m very interested in the issues about accuracy, but maybe I can find a better place in this forum for questions on that.

      Don’t worry about it yet. The capability of your rifle will become manifest very soon if you follow the advice given here and every factory rifle is different.

    • #34202
      upinthehills
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      Thanks for your patience. I went and read your articles, now going thru the discussions.

      I tried to look at the chamber in sunlight today but can’t really see any of it. I think it is black oxide treated or something like the rest of the barrel and it’s just too dark. I can look down the bore OK, but the chamber is not visible. I’ll try with flashlights tonight.

      No luck on lead sinkers, my local big box sports store basically only had tin, steel and tungsten. I’ll look some more, but I think I’ll add a 5 lb. bar of pure lead to my Rotometals order. I’ll check my fractional and letter drill bit sizes, but maybe I can make 2 small lead dowel molds with drill bits and some scrap bar stock.

    • #34208
      Anonymous
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      Upinthehills, A suggestion. if you’re already going to place an order with rotometals, look in their lead wire section for lead wire by the foot and order 12″ of the 5/16 wire (for a 30 cal bore) when you get it snip off a small bit and use it like a sinker to measure your groove by running that through the barrel. 1 foot of wire will measure a lot of barrels. No need for making dowel moulds. You can also use it for making pound casts. I pour melted lead in a fired case to the bottom of the neck and after it’s cool use a bit of wire for the “bullet” and make the pound cast from that.

    • #34212
      Goodsteel
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      That’s brilliant.

    • #34217
      upinthehills
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      Smbrj, that sounds great, you are a man of genius… 🙂

    • #34221
      popper
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      31-165A for lube and 31-165C for PC. I have both, PC both. I run them 2400 fps in the carbine & 2700 in the 24″ rifle. both are 1:10. I use copper instead of tin in my alloy. I got roto Sb alloy 3-5% sb add what I need of their superhard (cast an igot into 180gr boolits). I also got a1# of their tin if I need it. Cheaper way to go. My GKs both have the weatherby in 243 and love them.IIRC took 3 shots and a couple clicks to get the scopes sighted. I don’t use the 31-165A anymore happy to get a few $$ from it. PM me if interested, it’s a 4x Alum. minus handles. I may not respond right away, Mom is terminal and I get my other eye fixed today.

    • #34306
      tomme boy
      Participant
      • Bronze
      • Posts: 1
      • Comments: 41
      • Overall: 42

      I’m glad the 31-165A mold is working for for several people. I designed it for a factory Remington 308 throat. Popper I did not know you were using this one too. If I would have done it different I would have spec’ed the bore rider section to be 0.301″ Just to help it center it even more.

      I have also found in 308 and 7.62×54 R that RL15 does not work very well at reduced charges at all. It likes to run at near max levels. Both 4895 I and H work very well with reduced charges. But be careful under 30 gr. You should have the dacron as Larry mentioned. Especially when the temps go under 70 deg. Without the dacron you MIGHT get hang fires. I did and the dacron cleared it up.

    • #34843
      popper
      Participant
      • Silver
      • ★★
      • Posts: 1
      • Comments: 293
      • Overall: 294

      The 165C has that band down to 0.297 for PCing. Used your basic design, removed the L.G. 142C is similar just PB and lighter. Got a 150 PB version also, so far LR-308 upper (x2), 308MX & 3 BOs use that basic design and work great.
      Yes, Metglass, cermet and many others are some really funky items, cross between ceramic and metal. Not really what we do for cast though.

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