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    • #31089
      goody
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      I have this load for my 308 that shoots consistant big 1 hole groubs at 80 yards. Now if I look to the side of my hunting spot I have a 250 yard area to cover( most is thick brush). My cast load is a lym 291-310 slug travelling 1900 fps and right on at 80 yards. I feel confident with this load to 175 yards. My 130 gr jacket load for the 200-250 yard is traveling at 2700 fps and hits 8 inches above the cast load. If I turn my old redfield 3-9 tv field of view to 5 12 power and I use the duplex recticle and at the bottom of the narrow hair(it is heavy than gets thin) and I use the top of narrow hair to wide point it is right on for jacket load. Is this a ethical way to use the 2 loads? I cannot shoot at the 200 yard range because of hunting season soon here. If this is the wrong place to put this post feel free to move it. If all of this confuses you feel free to trash the post because I am confused also more than not. Dang these meds! Also I can crank the jacket load to 3000fps if that would be better.

    • #31090
      Goodsteel
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      Of course it is. There’s nothing unethical about knowing your rifle and optic and using it to improve your flexibility in the field. That’s just good riflemanship.
      However, if you’re shooting both at 80 yards and calculating where you think the bullet will strike at 175 yards, that may be considered completely unethical. Personally, I don’t dare take a shot that is much further than 25 yards past where I have practiced. So if I know what the rifle does at 80, I would not shoot past 105 yards. If I practiced at 100 it would be a 125 yard limit etc etc etc.

      There are too many unknowns for me to deviate from this. I do not know how I shoot at further ranges, I do not know how my load performs, I do not know how the wind effects the bullet, I do not know how to accurately judge this new range at seconds glance, and so on and so forth. If I deviate far from my comfortable shooting environment, I feel I am off the map, and a bad shot will be very hard for me to justify to my conscience.

      These are my personal code of ethics though, but I have not always held these things as true.
      For instance, I used to have a bad case of magnumitus and I wouldn’t think twice about trying a 400 yard shot with my Remington 300 Win Mag, with my carefully assembled ammo, my 3 shot 200 yard groups, and my carefully calculated bullet drop estimates.
      I was in my twenties, I thought I had a good handle on things, and I was confident as the day is long with my equipment, but I did not know what I did not know. Truth is, I got lucky a lot. Now, here I am quite a few years and several hundred thousand rounds later, and I am much less dependent on luck and my ethics have been adjusted to leave luck out of the equation as much as possible.
      Also, I don’t drag deer as well as I used to, and I discovered something very key to my happiness in the woods: Dragging deer 500 yards over rough terrain that a 4 wheeler couldn’t even get to sucks!!!

      Now all that said, the only deer I ever made a bad shot on was last year at 30 yards with a rifle I had almost 500 rounds through. I simply could not see the sights, and had never considered that scenario in my ethics model. My environment had changed to something I was not prepared for, and I made the decision to take my best guess and shoot. I knew I screwed up about 5 minutes after I pulled the trigger. Can’t take that shot back though. (For the record, I am absolutely sure that the deer was merely grazed by the bullet and is probably out munching on acorns right now, but I certainly wouldn’t want to be “grazed” by a 350gr HP cast bullet in the same way, I can assure you.)
      At this point, I believe that if anything changes about the environment I practice in that could compromise a perfect shot, I think I’ll just let it walk. I practice at 100 yards and I hunt at <100 yards period.

      That’s just my take on it. Sorry if I went off on a tangent.

    • #31092
      goody
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      thanks for your input and I totally agree with you. I can solve all of this by taking 2 rifles. As I will only be 100 yards from my truck taking 2 rifles seems like the ethical way to go. I know what my cast load does at 175 but I don’t know how the 130 jacket load will work but after hunting season I am going to try it out(using the duplex rectical for 2 different loads).

    • #31096
      popper
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      Tim is correct – however, estimating range is the big part of ‘how much vertical hold’ do I need. If you can get the BC of the jacket load, use a ballistic calc to see the bullet arc, make a table. Then estimate range and size of target to create an imaginary ‘scale’ on the target. Using the scope reticle will work but takes practice. 2 rifles may work but the jacketed load’s flatter trajectory will make the problem much simpler. Advantage to barrel burning speed.

    • #31099
      Goodsteel
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      You’re probably OK with the jacketed load. Jacketed bullets are far more predictable than cast. You’ve got the cast bullet in the bag, and 175 is not much of a shot with jacketed bullets.
      If you’re hunting with both and there are ranges as long as you are preparing for, you might do what I have had to do in years past:
      Do the best you can with what you have and get your holds for both at 80 yards.
      Hunt the first morning with the cast bullets. At high noon, when everybody’s in eating lunch, go out to the area with the long shot. Take one well placed shot at a target pasted on a box. If it’s close enough to fill you with confidence that it’s hitting where you’re aiming, then you’re good to go. If you hit ANYWHERE other than that spot you were supposed to, then throw those loads in the glove box, and hunt the thicker places.

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