- February 23, 2016 at 1:51 pm #24778
I was doing some research online relating to getting higher velocities in the 6.5 X 55 Swede. After do an internet search using duckduckgo, I found myself reading old threads on the forum formerly great now not so much. I found some good information, but not exactly what I was looking for. A lot of hints to things done that one should be careful with. I figure I’ve been at this long enough now, it’s time to learn and talk about those things. To date, most of my lead bullet rifle shooting has been in old milsurps at ranges of 50 and 100 yards for fun. I loaded light and for those ranges only. My desires were to not hurt the old rifles, wear out their barrels any more than they already were and to hit the target at 50/100 yards.
Currently, I’m going to be loading for a modern rifle (or two). One of them, I want to shoot subsonic cat sneeze/mouse fart, quiet as possible loads to control rabbits and squirrels in my backyard so they don’t eat the wife’s garden produce like they did last year. (She was threatening to get them with my youth model .410 shotgun by the end of the season, regardless if she upset the neighbors or not. She was quite upset.) I figure a CZ 527 in .22 K Hornet and a 38 grain lead slug oughta do the job nicely.
The other two rifles are 6.5 X 55 and .223/5.56MM. Right now, I’m working on the 6.5 Swede. Again, I went with a CZ 527 with it’s modern strong action and barrel. The .223 is a Ruger American which looks like it’s an improved copy of a Savage action/Accu-Trigger. Both these rifles should be good for higher pressure loads than the old milsurps were, so I’m looking at making a serious run at getting there in both calibers.
6.5 X 55 is where I’m starting out. As mentioned in the other thread, I’m guessing either the 6.5 Kurtz or 6.5 Cruise Missile group buy molds from back in the day oughta get the job done. Both are still available for sale with the Kurtz available through NOE, my favorite mold manufacturer. That man knows how to provide customer service.
I noticed at the not so great any more forum that many of the contributors to those old threads were banned, but I know at least one of them is on this board and I’m pretty sure he’s learned those skills based on his posts here with the .308 Winchester.
So can anybody help me with getting this 6.5 Swede lead bullet cartridge up and going at velocities that’ll put down a deer at 300 yards? That’s about the max distance I’ll even see a deer in the areas I hunt in here in Georgia. I figure if it has the gas at 300, it’ll be able to do anything I’ll ever ask it to do. My guess is I need to be somewhere around 2400 RPM based on the numbers I punched into my calculator.
- February 23, 2016 at 4:07 pm #24789HarterParticipant
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There is the paper patch ….
I’ve read here a couple …..maybe it the other replacement forum….. of a got ting 2700 fps with cast though the writer wasn’t specific about naked ,paper etc . .
Eliminate all of the variables you can full or nearly full cases ,minimalist sizing, th heaviest bullet your twist will shoot if the barrel is 24″ chose a powder that will push all the way to 22″ . The bullets must fit leade /throat area as closely as is possible. Each bullet must be the same as the 1 before and after. Bases and checks must be square not only to the bullet but the bore . Cases must be as close to every other case and as close as possible to occupying the total chamber cut as possible. Case mouth and leade/throat should be as near as possible to same dimensions with the case mouths. 0005 to.001 over . You must have a perfect crown . Squared receivers never er hurt as well as lapped bolt lugs and a square bolt face . There is always more minutiae to pursue until the $500 CZ is a $2000 bench gun and shoots 1 hole high speed groups.
What 1 must decide before we start with this is how fast do you want to go and is the basic rifle capable of doing that paired with how much more time and money and effort you want to spend to reach a maximum goal or a suitable level.
Prep like a bench rest shooter Use full case powders. You’ll get your foot in the door.
- February 23, 2016 at 6:13 pm #24793GoodsteelKeymaster
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If you’re looking for the same kind of usable accuracy that has been demonstrated by Larry Gibson and bjornb, then you may have only two approaches available to you with two expectations of accuracy:
#1 Replace the barrel with a slower twist option and expect 1.5MOA out to 300 yards at 2700-3000FPS.
#2 Use the rifle and bullets you have, and expect enough accuracy to shoot your chronograph, tape measure, and camera at 50 yards. Once these tools have been eliminated as a hindrance, you can shoot at yellow milk jugs at estimated distances, with bullets at estimated speeds, and you don’t have to worry about posting pictures of 10 shot groups (or all the other things that create a credible foundation).
I remember one fellow had the cruise missile break in half in mid air and as a result he shot his truck. I doubt that shot was part of the “cluster”.
- February 23, 2016 at 10:59 pm #24807BlammerParticipant
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NOE has a 6.5 mould that you can cast a 57gr bullet with. Use some unique maybe 10 gr or so for a good thump the rabbit load.
sorry no ideas on what to use to kill deer at 300yds with the 6.5
- February 23, 2016 at 11:01 pm #24808Larry GibsonParticipant
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The 6.5 Swede is a real challenge for HV cast bullet shooting simply because a bullet of any serious weight is long and the twist is fast. Your CZ should have close to a 1-9″ twist which is better than the milsurp Swede 6.5×55 for cast bullet HV shooting. If your CZ also has the long throat of the milsurps then I suggest the 6.5 Kurtz bullet (NOE). If it has a “normal” commercial length throat the NOE 269-145 would/are my bullets of choice. With either bullet cast of a quality alloy such as #2 alloy and judiciously loaded to 1900 – 2100+/- fps giving sub 2 moa accuracy (100 yards with 10 shot groups and holding linear expansion to 200 yards) should suffice for the deer you have there. Honestly 300 yards for deer hunting is going to be a stretch. Yes either bullet started out at 1900 – 2100 fps is going to kill a deer if it hits a vital area. The problem is how efficiently (read that as ” how quick you want them to die”) you want them dead and can you hit them. A 6.5 cast bullet starting out at 2100 fps will only be traveling 1400 – 1600 fps at 200 yards. Even if placed accurately that is about the max range I’ve found for cast bullets to be effective on deer given that 1400 – 1600 fps. Given the smaller size of the 6.5 bullets the terminal effect is lessoned. additionally out at 300 yards the bullets have dropped to 1200 – 1300 fps which I consider a bit on the low side for a 6.5 cast bullet. Additionally the drop, given a 100 yard zero, is going to be around 35 – 40″ and the bullets will be beginning to go back down through the sonic transition area which most often adversely effects accuracy.
As fine as the 6.5×55 cartridge is the limitations are a bit much to consider it being a 300 yards deer rifle. At closer range yes, no problem though. However, with jacketed bullets and with the higher loading possibility of the CZ action it is not a problem with quality jacketed bullets. My own preference for such is the 129 or 140 gr Hornady InterLok bullets at 2850 and 2750 fps. With those you have a 400 – 500 yard potential for which the cartridge is famous.
However you want to pursue will be glad to assist any way I can.
- February 24, 2016 at 1:29 am #24820
Thank you for your input. Based on what I’ve just learned and the small volume of cartridges I’m going to shoot through this rifle, I may very well be money and marbles ahead just to buy a box of the 140 grain Hornady Interlok bullets and be done with it.
What powder, starting work up load, primer, etc would you suggest for that bullet? I have a pretty good cabinet full of reloading powders and two or three brands of primers.
Placing the bullet where it goes is probably the easiest part for me. My Father, a WWII Marine “Intelligence Man,” Scout and Sniper, taught me to shoot well when I was pretty small. Like him, I’ve always been deadly with weapons that have sights on them and need to be aimed. Probably not as deadly as him, but he had quite a bit of experience on me.
- February 24, 2016 at 2:44 am #24828chutesnreloadsParticipant
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The Swede is one I’ll just stick with jacketed for serious work
- February 24, 2016 at 3:40 am #24837Sgt. MikeParticipant
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Ok to be funny here Dave, ya can’t shoot a deer at 300 yards with a 6.5×55 cast you can only shoot milk jugs at 312 yards…. otherwise your doing it wrong.
To do what you want to do I would normally suggest a .30 caliber, but that is not what you are seeking. But thinking this through the 6.5 anything has a extremely high S.D which even if you slow it down to maintain accuracy. It would do a better job than you would normally assume. I agree with you the easiest route to your velocity /accuracy goal is Jacketed, just a opinion. Not saying you should not try cast, as it was stated not long ago that no way a 30 caliber would hold 3 moa at 3000 fps with cast. but to give guidance in that caliber I couldn’t as I don;t own one. but I do have a 6.5 grendel which I would start off with a slower twist to begin with but not too sure that the case capacity would not work against me. My only attempts at cast in that caliber was fireforming some AK brass into Grendel which Larry was extremely kind enough to donate some projectiles for. Accuracy yeah I didn’t pay any attention to i, just humped them out the barrel fast enough to form the case.
- February 24, 2016 at 7:20 am #24853
Didn’t catch your nick at first. Good to see you and Larry Gibson again.
What fort you going to in Texas? My last stateside duty station was Ft. Rucker back in 1985. PCS’ed to Finthen-Flugplatz/8thID in West Germany at that time and left the Army after that tour. Enjoyed my time in service, but never looked back once I left. My wife at the time just wasn’t the traveling type.
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