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    • #33485
      WCM
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      I have an old 1952 Mannlicher Schoenauer in .257 Roberts.
      It was a Christmas present from my father before he passed.

      I have always tried to stay away from the +P loading data because I wasn’t sure it would be wise to use it in this particular gun.

      What are your thoughts on this subject.

      Thanks for your help and knowledge.

    • #33487
      uber7mm
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      Dial in a cast load, and never look back! That’s what I’d do……

      Probably doesn’t answer your question, however.

      BTW: I’ve heard nothing but good things about 257 Roberts from the older hunters. Great caliber.

    • #33507
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      I had a person argue with me that the strength of the Shiloh Sharps 74 action is as strong as the Ruger #1 because they heat treat the action.

      I called BULL $*** because the action design is still weak.

    • #33511
      Goodsteel
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      Shiloh Sharps may not be as strong as the #1, but it’s probably strong enough for any sane loads.

      The MS also. They are strong actions, but I wouldn’t get too happy with the pressure. Exercise caution. Remember it’s a gentleman’s rifle, not a 1000 yard tack driver. I’d run your pressures below 50K, but if the action is in good condition, I wouldn’t necessarily baby it either.

    • #33512
      uber7mm
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      I understand you hesitation to load hot. 1952 wasn’t that long ago…. So the steel would be modern, however the rear action is split, an 19th Century design. which as you imply is an inherently weaker design.

    • #33514
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      uber7mm;n14250 wrote: I understand you hesitation to load hot. 1952 wasn’t that long ago…. So the steel would be modern, however the rear action is split, an 19th Century design. which as you imply is an inherently weaker design.

      I think since all loading manuals show +P loads for the .257 I believe I can safely use the starting loads and be fine.
      They are about 12% under what they show as maximum.

      I like the full stock Mannlicher rifles.
      I also have one in 7X57 0r .275 Rigby.

    • #33515
      Goodsteel
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      uber7mm;n14250 wrote: I understand you hesitation to load hot. 1952 wasn’t that long ago…. So the steel would be modern, however the rear action is split, an 19th Century design. which as you imply is an inherently weaker design.

      Unlike the modern Savage, whos bolt lugs are not even attached to the boltbody and that bolt body is made of soft steel, loosely attached to the bolt head with a pin…..which is held in place by the firing pin……

      Lets not lose track of the facts here. The bolt head, lugs, and recoil surfaces inside the front ring are the only things that contain pressure and make the action “weak” or “strong”. The rest of the action from there back is a really pretty cartridge shucking device.
      The pressure these features have to hold? Bolt thrust only.
      There is no radial pressure containment burden placed on the action at all, and that is the lions share of the pressure that is produced by the firing event. Bolt thrust is inherently less unless you have a catastrophic event. If that happens, you screwed up majorly in the first place or had an SEE event, both of which will wreck even a modern barrel (and by default the action also), and both of which are killed in there tracks by a conscientious reloader. If one of these two scenarios manifests itself, the front ring may burst as a result of the barrel failing to contain the radial pressure, and if that happens, the lugs may be released from the front ring because as the top is blown off the front ring it allows the bolt to rais up and get over the feedramp abutment. Most of the time the bolt lugs did not fail, they were merely released from the action and the bolt followed the path of least resistance. Even more obviously, when the chamber ruptures, pressure is being released very rapidly and bolt thrust is being reduced very quickly, so any reasonable feature in the rear of the action will be very effective at arresting the rearward motion of the bolt. The 98 handles this with a small third lug which takes it’s seat at the bottom of the rear ring just in front of the tang, while the MS uses the bolt handle itself. Both are effective

      One could make the case that the MS does not have as sturdy a way to deal with gas blowback as the 98 does with it’s beautiful bolt shroud that functions as a blast shield for such things, but I think the MS could hold it’s own in this regard as well.

      All things considered, they are both very well designed rifles.

    • #33517
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      I hunted with a Steyr Professional rifle for years and it has rear locking lugs,like the old 788 Rem.
      I never had a problem with the rifle and did use maximum load in the .270 win.

    • #33518
      Larry Gibson
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      Quite frankly I wouldn’t worry about the +P loads in your MS. The rifle was chambered in cartridges with CIP MAPs of 56 – 57 psi such as the 7×57 which has a 57K psi CIP MAP. The newer loading manuals do not exceed SAAMI MAPs and the SAAMI MAP for the 257 R +P is 58K psi. If you loaded up to 1/2 to 1 gr of the max listed +P loads it should be fine. However, I say “should” because as always when working up a new load watch for excessive pressure signs. The action can take the psi. Of course use newer cases rated for the +P psi.

      Larry Gibson

    • #33522
      Rattlesnake Charlie
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      Excellent answer Larry, and backed to logic and fact.

      Just where did the idea that the .257 Roberts was to be loaded to pressures such as the 7×57?
      And when did the +P loads for it come along, and based on what?

    • #33528
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      Rattlesnake Charlie;n14260 wrote: Excellent answer Larry, and backed to logic and fact.

      Just where did the idea that the .257 Roberts was to be loaded to pressures such as the 7×57?
      And when did the +P loads for it come along, and based on what?

      I think people have always tried to push the envelop and make magnums out of lesser cartridges.
      This is not my intention. I only want to be on the safe side of loading for my particular rifle,as it is a priceless keepsake to me.
      If I needed a .25/06 I would buy one.

      Thanks for all your responses. I believe you have answered my question.

    • #33532
      kens
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      Can somebody post the article by P.O. Ackley about his experiments with action strength?
      The article where he stoked up hot loads until something came apart; a mauser, a enfield, springfield, jap, and so on.
      He ended up with a rifle case full up with bullseye or something, and blew the barrel off the action.

    • #33539
      Waksupi
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      I’ve mentioned this before. If you have an accurate load, learn to love it. It takes another 300 fps to gain any advantage at all in trajectory. Most shooters aren’t good enough to benefit from the little bit of extra. I know I’m not.

    • #33542
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      The max loads in the new Hornady #10 manual are the hottest I have seen yet.
      The newest Nosler manual shows at least two grains under for the same powders and weight bullets.

      For me accuracy is the bottom line.
      My M.S. rifle has shown a preference for flat base bullets in the past.

    • #33543
      kens
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      I agree with Larry.
      Why worry about +P loads in .257Rob? It is already a fast round to begin with. I just looked up data in my load book, and it takes a .25-06 to best it by 200fps.
      The .243win is all the rage, and it is only equal to .257. The .257 bests the .243 with heavier bullets. If you wanna go fast, just get a lighter bullet.
      My book shows .257Rob @ 3600fps with a 60gr pill. How much faster do you need to go?

    • #33544
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      I have never been a big fan of the .243, but I like the Roberts.
      I use the 117 gr bullets moving at midrange speed.
      The most accurate bullets I have shot in the rifle were some of the older 100 gr win silvertip flat base bullets.
      I still have a few hundred of those left.

    • #33545
      kens
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      I’m not advocating the .243, Im only saying that the 243 is supposed to be the hot number that surpassed the 257Rob. But looking at the load books, the 257 is equally fast for similar bullet weight.
      When you factor in 117gr bullets the 257 outshines the 243.
      You mention that you like 117gr at midrange speed, then you just described a standard load, not a +P load.

    • #33546
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      kens;n14284 wrote: I’m not advocating the .243, Im only saying that the 243 is supposed to be the hot number that surpassed the 257Rob. But looking at the load books, the 257 is equally fast for similar bullet weight.
      When you factor in 117gr bullets the 257 outshines the 243.
      You mention that you like 117gr at midrange speed, then you just described a standard load, not a +P load.

      I wouldn’t need the +P unless I decided to take it antelope hunting in Wy, where most of the shots are over 200 yds,then I might benefit from a +p loading.
      My barrel is only 20″ long so I lose some ballistic power there.
      My choice of barrel length would be 24″ same as what I like on a .270 win or .30/06.
      Most of my shots here are under 200 yds so it doesn’t really matter.

    • #33548
      Robroy
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      I have a so called Breda 6.5 x 54 MS action. It’s a Greek millatary rifle. If I could get a new magazine rotor for 7 x57 I might fit a 257 barrel on it and chamber it in a Roberts and not think twice about over pressure. As it is, it will get its origional chambering and a slower twist barrel.

      I have a Howa 1500 with a 10 twist Hart barrel chambered in 257 Rob.AI. unfortunately it only has 3 rounds through it. I have to finish whittling the stock before I can do much more with it

    • #33550
      Rattlesnake Charlie
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      I’ve never heard of the .257 Roberts failing to drop deer nicely. Can’t say the same for many other “new and improved” cartridges. I do believe the .243 is a wonderful “heavy varmint cartridge”. But, looking at it, I feel it is a little light on the deer side. Hear me out. I’ve seen/heard of many “instant kills” with the .243, and I believe it does so by virtually vaporizing the vitals of a deer. But, it just doesn’t seem like it would perform so if a shoulder were hit or a “less than satisfactory” hit should occur. Proper bullet selection and placement makes it or breaks it. Even more so for the .223 on deer. BTW, I don’t own a rifle in .257 Roberts. I do feel a rather nostalgic attraction to it.

    • #33554
      Harter
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      Bullet weight for bullet weight 257 hands down over the 243 .

    • #33555
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      Rattlesnake Charlie;n14289 wrote: I’ve never heard of the .257 Roberts failing to drop deer nicely. Can’t say the same for many other “new and improved” cartridges. I do believe the .243 is a wonderful “heavy varmint cartridge”. But, looking at it, I feel it is a little light on the deer side. Hear me out. I’ve seen/heard of many “instant kills” with the .243, and I believe it does so by virtually vaporizing the vitals of a deer. But, it just doesn’t seem like it would perform so if a shoulder were hit or a “less than satisfactory” hit should occur. Proper bullet selection and placement makes it or breaks it. Even more so for the .223 on deer. BTW, I don’t own a rifle in .257 Roberts. I do feel a rather nostalgic attraction to it.

      I agree with you on the .243 win.
      It was my fathers favorite long range deer rifle.
      I feel it is a bit light or “marginal”
      I call it an experts rifle.
      You need to make the perfect bow shot.

      I like the 7mm/08 much better as a youth rifle.

      I personally chose the .270 win and .30/06 to do most of my hunting.
      I was never disappointed.

      I like the Roberts, but it is as you say waxing nostalgia,and a gift from long ago.

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