- March 15, 2017 at 8:08 pm #34106
First off you’re all a bad influence on me , all of you from and at the old CB , all of you here and especially the guy running this place …. 🙂 and I’d probably not be so run a muck and loving all of this big holes make bigger holes stuff . I blame Tim because he let me shoot that 86′ which lead to my talking my buddy Jorge into the 1895 G JM Marlin that ultimately resulted in me bringing a blued Remlin home last weekend .
â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹This is my reprinted review .
After many mixed reviewsâ€‹ ……
I went to a show and bought a Marlin 1895 G in 45-70 for just a little more that a new 92′ Rossi in Colts .
I just had a phone update and pictures are screwed up but I’ll give it hell as I go .
I looked over the really important parts before dropping dollars doing a mental comparison to Jorge’s SS gun and decided to take a chance .
The hammer is a little heavy on the bolt but with 30 found down range it seems better than it was across the table , but nothing like the slick of the 99′ that Jorge has .
I have about a 1997 1894CB Marlin that was good but not great out of the new box and a little bit of stone work on the bolt and 5-600 round and it runs great the wood fit was good , a little proud on the fore stock but good at the action ends without a big curve .
This Remlin is another thing all together . It has cut checkering that looks good is very even an with my once over doesn’t look to have any real over runs . I have a couple of side by side pics with the Rosschester 92′ and frankly the fit and finish is better on the 92′ than the Remlin . The 1895 also being what it is lacks any case colored parts being all blued . The metal fit looks good and the sissy pad (which I fully appreciate) is well fitted . I didn’t observe any sharp edges but it is 2nd hand an some of that may have been doctored, there’s not white lines to suggest that however . The crown shape looks like it was cut with a butterfly bit and shows all of the machine marks save the 1/32 in side the muzzle .
I shot 20 rounds of Privi Partizan 45-70-405 SP and when I finally got enough elevation to get on paper (18×24 fruit box) it shoots some 4″ left but seems to want to stack them in all together . There was 1 group of 2 for sure maybe 3 that were all touching and at least 2 others in touching pairs . So with that in mind I can over look the cosmetics a lot .
This rifle is proofed REM and is an MR13xxxB serial I have no idea where that puts it as far as a build date but sometime between June 11′ and June 16′ . I would lean towards 13′ .
Jorge is a lifetimeâ€‹ friend that lives here now we shoot together about once a month and he feeds me new 1x brass . I have 100 Privi Partizan 1x now for the 45-70 now .
Remington bought Marlin in 04′ but didn’t move production from New Haven to Illian NY until early 11′ . There were a lot of QC issues reported along with poor accuracy from the 1st Rem production guns . Hopefully that is behind them now and they will work on improving the wood to metal fit and making these guns as pretty a the BDL and CDL lines , at this point wood ADLs would be an improvement.
My phone is being uncooperative with pictures at this time so for what it’s worth .
For all of the madness swirling around the Remington/Marlin thing I have to say overallâ€‹ aside from the recoil concussion Sunday afternoon I’m happy with it . Now keeping in mind that I didn’t pay full price for it and that it is of questionable linage in the eyes of purists it’s not a bad rifle and I think it is going to be good to go.
A few things I’ve since learned .
Both makers used/use 8 and 12 groove Microgroove and 6 groove Ballard .
The PP ammo is loaded to 31kpsi which is plenty of butt stock authority for me with the 405s .
I will of course have to go read up on the care and feeding of Microgroove barrels and work out just how dead I need to make stuff , i suspect that 45-75-350 ought to do nicely up through Elk inside 250 yd .
I have 120 brass to get started with , a Sinclair FL and seating die set with a spare RCBS FL die neither of which seem to touch the body of 1x from either mine or Jorge’s rifle . I have a Lee single 457-340 that drops .3605 at 353 gr and a slightly more streamline 454-350 RF for paper to get started with . I wouldn’t think I’d have any problems finding data or books to read .
â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹Now the really real question is what to sell off for the new 45 moulds .
- March 15, 2017 at 8:49 pm #34108
That rifle will put ten in a 3″ circle at 100 yards. I’ve shot one. Very good rifles.
No, I do not think somebody saved you from Remington’s cheese grater metal fit. I’ve been saying it for years that Remington has made magnificent steps forward in the fit and finish of these rifles and they shoot as good or better than the originals.
The checkering will have no overruns. It’s CNC cut.
The #1 thing you can do to improve the feel of the bolt is to work on that ejector, it’s spring, and the track that it rides in in the bolt. You can also drop in a Wolff spring kit, and stone the hell out of all the internal moving parts (except the bolt block and the slot it rides in). Bend the trigger return spring up with a screwdriver to make it a little lighter.
If you need a trigger job, holler at me.
Some good starting loads use the gas checked NOE 460-350-RF, or the 460-378-RN. Both will feed flawlessly. Use water dropped COWW with 2.5% tin. Use White Label BAC lube. Size to .459.
Load these bullets in Starline brass (that has been neck sized with the Lyman die) over 54grains of IMR4895, and light them with a CCI 200 LR primer.
That’s going to put you pretty close to 2 MOA and you can tweak it from there.
- March 15, 2017 at 9:20 pm #34109
The trigger is very good at this point . I don’t know what the break is but I would guess in 4# or less with zero felt movement . It is more the front half of the movement where the bolt is being cocked .
Of course it will visit the shop ! It might even drop by with a truck fill propane tank for the bluing tanks .
Now its the rear sight that has to move opposite of the desired point of impact right ?
I’m currently about 5″ left @ 100. Of course I will work a load before I move the sights to far .
- March 15, 2017 at 9:34 pm #34110
To move your POI to the right, move the rear sight to the right. I think any load you use with have less than 3″ horizontal movement (left or right), but your vertical changes will be drastic. I’ve cut about a 2 foot tall X 6 inch wide swath of 45 caliber holes in my backer board over the past 8 months which is comprised of about 2000 bullets.
- March 15, 2017 at 9:38 pm #34111
Roger . If I get it within 2″ with a 3″ group then everything above coyote should be in trouble !
- March 16, 2017 at 12:39 pm #34118Sgt. MikeParticipant
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Harter;n14968 wrote: First off you’re all a bad influence on me , all of you from and at the old CB , all of you here ………
Why thank you Sir LMAO ;););)….
I find myself in the same boat with you, as I am giggling about the start of your post. Sorry just found it humorous.
- March 16, 2017 at 6:59 pm #34122
I can’t take this too seriously nor should anyone else . It was intended as humor .
- March 16, 2017 at 11:24 pm #34125Sgt. MikeParticipant
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I took it that way heck I’m still giggling
- March 19, 2017 at 5:10 am #34151
I was looking for something unrelated to the project at hand and found a stash of 458193s so I loaded 5 each at 42,42.5,43,43.5 of H322 under these at 414 gr . Also 10 each which Unique under the 350s the Lee seems a little small so I opted to run it light to see and I rolled the 453-350 in paper to see if it would pick up the copper still in the barrel before I stick a bunch of lead to it . I’ll likely get out tomorrow afternoon to check it out and run it over the Chrony just to see how fast the 31kpsi Privi Partizan 405 goes .
The sights aren’t bad as is , I do have a Williams peep sight that is windage and elevation adjustable if I can locate a base ……. which I probably have laying around somewhere . If push comes to push I’m sure I have a set of rings suitable for the action or can get a rail to go with a really low set of rings .
- March 20, 2017 at 11:14 am #34167
Harter;n15046 wrote: I got out today , targets , Chrony , 50 rounds . 6 loads , 3 bullets .
The 11gr of Unique under the 458-340 and the paper patched 453-350 were fun . The sight adjustment is pretty close now . 1000-1100 fps there’s work to do there if I presue subs .
I have 42-48 gr to run with for the 405s with H322 and it’s closing at 43.5 .
As a side note the surplus H4831 was fun also just matching the Unique loads .
â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹The backer , a paper box 11.5 x 16.5 has 48 of the 50 in about 8.5 square .
The best of the full tilt loads . It’s obvious that to get this down to zero I need to find a rail and good optic or at a minimum get the peep on it . I have 1 step left on the rear sight and still had to hold over at just 50 yd . I might have another front sight around …. Here’s a phrase I never thought I’d say , I don’t think the Redding dies are going to cut it .
Actually, you might find it makes less difference than you think. I didn’t do much better with Unique, using a scope.
- March 20, 2017 at 3:39 pm #34175
I know I’m not up at the top yet but keeping the sight picture the same with this particular rear sight is very taxing . Meaning that it doesn’t feel like the bead and the U match up . Maybe it’s just me , my cant ,balance , perception , maybe it’s a weird light thing . I’m holding out for a weird sight thing .
My inner shotgunner just asked if it would be practical to do a rib and bead ……. he doesn’t any suggestions about how to get a rear sight on it although there was a flash of flip ups. Now there’s just maniacal laughter in the background noise .
Any top rail suggestions for the factory drill and tap ?
As a side note and unsubstantiated claim , it appears that Remlin is using the suffix letter dating method on SNs for the Remlins . This is a B made in 2011 , plant ops were moved and restarted in 2010 it would make sense for A to be 2010 and no suffix to the MR 00000 to be 04-09 after the buy out . Just for whatever it’s worth .
- March 20, 2017 at 3:50 pm #34176
The factory sights leave much to be desired, and a Lyman #17 coupled with a Williams rear will pay dividends toward precision.
However, if you want a scope, there are many options available. My favorite is a vintage Redfield one piece rail, with Low hiden screw rings and a 2 or 3 power straight tube scope. Awesome combo there, and the hidden screw rings are hard to find a deal on in the Medium height but the Low rings can be found all over disdainfully abandoned by the modern crop of shooters who think scope that are bigger and cheaper are better.
I say go smaller and more expensive/better quality.
Another more common (but certainly less classy) is to mount a weaver aluiminum rail and clamp on rings.
There are lots of options for various mounts of your choice, and anything that fits the Marlin 336 will fit your 1895.
- March 20, 2017 at 3:55 pm #34177
I have a couple of the extremely ugly but seamed like a good idea look through mounts and ahhhh , no . I’ll look for that #17 .
- March 20, 2017 at 4:01 pm #34178
I suppose the “look through” mounts are not all that illogical when I think about it. Gotta respect a sportsman’s honesty when he uses the cheapest POS optic he can, and he plans so well for it to fail him, that he makes sure he can still shoot the rifle when it does.
Facepalm anyone? LOL!
- March 20, 2017 at 4:16 pm #34179
I can’t remember now which whether that set had 1 of the K4s in it or an early 80 Bushnell in it when I got it .
I have this FN 98 with a Weaver V9 , an early Williams set and a flip up peep sight attached to the rear of the Leopold single dove tail base . I don’t know how bad it would have to be to need 3 sight sets ” just in case” the scope and peep went bad ….
- March 21, 2017 at 11:20 pm #34201
I know I’m missing something obvious that I know I know . The faster I drive the 405s the more elevation I need to keep them on target . Maybe I have too much pistol time on hand , heavier bullets have a longer dwell time so they hit higher . Shoot faster you have less time for the drop …. Why are the heavier bullets hitting lower as they go faster …… I know I know it I just don’t remember why it is ….
- March 22, 2017 at 6:06 am #34211
Harter;n15090 wrote: I know I’m missing something obvious that I know I know . The faster I drive the 405s the more elevation I need to keep them on target . Maybe I have too much pistol time on hand , heavier bullets have a longer dwell time so they hit higher . Shoot faster you have less time for the drop …. Why are the heavier bullets hitting lower as they go faster …… I know I know it I just don’t remember why it is ….
Yeah, same as pistol. The slower you shoot, the more time in the barrel for recoil to lift your POI. Faster bullets get out of the pipe before recoil can raise the POI.
I noticed the sane thing, and that’s my best explanation.
- April 7, 2017 at 4:10 am #34542
Ok after a ton of wrestling I went ahead and bought the Williams peep tonight .
I also loaded 20 full cases under the 458193 . I hope to get out between the time the wind let’s up and before it starts snowing this weekend .
Has anyone done the Paco Kelly magazine/fore end relief is it worth the effort ?
As it stands now I’ve run 3 bullets ( 350 PP, 353 GG and 414 GG) of 3 very different designs , 3 powders and 3 energy levels from hopped up Colts to Buffalo slayers . I have a 4 th bullet to try that is a HB that may take well to either grease or paper .
The powders have run from Unique to H322 to too slow to reach clean burn in even a compressed load . Groups remain unchanged , suggesting that at present I have a solid but very flexible platform as is .
i can work the loads a little , add better sights , wring out the bullet QC , fiddle with wads , try another bullet , try a mag primer , wring out my trigger technique or be happy with the platform and cartridge . I don’t like the 3-4″ groups but maybe that really is all there is .
- April 7, 2017 at 10:34 am #34543
Has anyone done the Paco Kelly magazine/fore end relief is it worth the effort ?
On a 45-70, no, it is absolutely unnecessary and may cause problems.
can work the loads a little , add better sights , wring out the bullet QC , fiddle with wads , try another bullet , try a mag primer , wring out my trigger technique or be happy with the platform and cartridge . I don’t like the 3-4″ groups but maybe that really is all there is . â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹
I’m telling you, I already went through this and I took about 2 years doing it, and tried several different rifles. The 1895GBL was one of the very best tested easily putting all the shots in a 2.5″ or less circle at 100 yards.
The best loads I found was 4198 with a tuft of dacron, and a compressed load of 4895 in a neck sized brass.
- April 7, 2017 at 1:31 pm #34546
I know ……
â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹â€‹Im just stubborn about poking the obvious big parts and massaging the little places .
Im encouraged by the the rifle that shoots multiple loads to the same consistency and isn’t fussy about bullets .
Maybe I’m sad because it is so easy this time ……Yeah that’s it , I’m sad because I didn’t have to fuss over 40 detail points to reach the top of the bell curve . 🙂 😉
- April 8, 2017 at 10:57 am #34555
I see the 45-70 as a bit of a 800 pound gorilla. It is what it is. It makes no apology for itself.
Kind of like a D8 bull dozer: No, I won’t till your garden. Yes, I’ll still be tearing mountains in half when you’re on your fifth tiller………….but it won’t till your garden and 45-70 will not shoot ragged hole groups.
- April 8, 2017 at 1:32 pm #34560
Oh great now I have this image in my mind of a silver back mountain gorilla dragging a DR through the corn rows . 🙂 🙂
- April 8, 2017 at 1:47 pm #34561
I needed the sight , Williams 5D , any way with the 1600 fps 458193 @ 414 gr I’m out of elevation on the flip up factory sights . The rear sight also does nothing to encourage “comfortable” consistency for me . Whether I use the Williams as a peep or ghost ring it can’t be any worse , and should impart that “comfortable” sight picture that will allow more focus on the target and less on sight alignment . (All of course being part of the shot but you know what I mean.)
I have a piece rail coming also that will be adapted to accommodate a hog light and a base in the unlikely event that I should need to make the switch to optics to accommodate failing light gathering of my dominant eye ……. Do I really have to ? Come on I’m only 50 how bad can it be .
- September 2, 2017 at 8:01 pm #46901afish4570Participant
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I am at the age I need to scope my new Remlin 1895. The gun looks pretty good but still setting things up for deer season. My thought is to put a small scope like the VX 2 Leupold 1x4x20 using a Talley lo mount I have on hand. Don’t find much info on scoping the 4570. Anyone know if this setup will give me enough room for decent eyfish4570e relief. a
- February 16, 2018 at 8:57 pm #49147afish4570Participant
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Ended up buying a Weaver 30mm Illuminated dual X recticle 1.5 X4land (on sale)( the # 4 European Ill. is still on sale)called Talley and exchanged the 1″ low rings for the 30mm(no chg. except for me shipping both ways}. Great fit and plenty of eye relief too. Sighted gun in using 300 gr JHP and 3031 for an estimated 1800fps (not chronoed) Unsucessful hunt after 9 days hunting. Load grouped an honest 2″ at 100 yds. Before hunting this fall I want to shoot some 457122 FP weighing 338 grs. or the Lee 340 and see which shoots best. afish4570
- September 2, 2017 at 8:47 pm #46902
It should be . There is a Weaver rail that fits the whole top leaving lots of room to adjust eye relief as long as the hammer clears .
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