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    • #29462
      bullet maker
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      Anybody know anything about these rifles. Single shot , break open, rimfire. Are they worth anything?

    • #29466
      Reg
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      A picture might help here. They made quite a few rifles in that caliber once upon a time. A number were of break open design.

      The round itself in both the long and short version was actually quite successful and was a favorite of Elmer Keith, he spoke quite highly of it.
      Now , long obsolete. both the rifles and shells are collectable. The last ammo I herd of was only in the form of a rumor that The Old Western Scrounger ( now owned by Val Forget Jr. ) had some made up either in South America or it might have been Mexico. I think the actual last production was made by Canuk in Canada.
      The Stevens 44 rifles are being shot by replacing the breech block with a center fire breech block and reforming .22 Hornet cases. I have shot one of these and found it very accurate for being what it was.

      Value, depends on what you have but do remember, at least in our neck of the woods these kind of rifles are getting a bit soft in value unless it has some outstanding attribute. Seems as at the moment more are interested in the AR,s and such.

    • #29471
      Goodsteel
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      You’ve probably got a “Marksman 12” or some such. Pretty much a wall hanger IMHO, unless you send it off to Taylor to be sleeved down to 22LR and do some extractor work (IE: labor of love).
      They were great little rifles as was the Stevens Favorite, the 9mm rimfire garden shotgun, or even the Winchester thumbtrigger, but they suffered from an industry and culture that walked away from them.
      That’s my opinion only.

    • #29473
      Reg
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      The early Stevens Tip Up? They made a bunch of them in 25 RF and there were others. Mostly wall hangers for sure but some do have values far beyond their worth.

    • #29478
      Rattlesnake Charlie
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      My dad once said that the .25 rimfire was a much better killer than the .22.

    • #29480
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      I’ll get some pictures tomorrow.

    • #29486
      Sgt. Mike
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      yep I know about them

    • #29487
      Sgt. Mike
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      25 Stevens is a low pressure Rimfire usually on the Old Steven favourite 1894 to 1915 version of the Stevens Favourite

    • #29488
      Sgt. Mike
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      here is some further information
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.25_Stevens

      http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb…hornet-127644/

      This is a Favorite the pins are really too weak for centerfire conversations to a 22 Hornet
      Now if it is a steven 44 or 441/2 yes it can be safely converted BTW the 22 Hornet can be done in 25 caliber

      The favourite was known as a boy’s rifle

      The above is a 44 notice the larger pins hence stronger than the favorite

      Here is a video of the 25 Rimfire in a Favorite:

      https://youtu.be/Nt33KPBiwC0

    • #29497
      Reg
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      Stevens made the Tip Up,s , the Favorites and the 44,s in 25 rimfire and all seemed to work very well as the cartridge was low pressure. If I am not mistaken the .25 rimfire was also made in other brands as well, would have to refer to Grants books for sure.

      The 44 even the last versions were not strong enough to take the Hornet. It was a combination of flexing screws and the link lock up system that proved it,s undoing. Stevens even made the 44 in the Hornet for a very brief time but quickly withdrew it from the market as it just didn,t stand up. Fellow in town found one at a early gunshow years ago still in factory tight condition and it within 150 rounds shot itself loose to the point the lever would not stay up.
      The 44 1/2 on the other hand is a bird of another story. Strong enough to take a 06 some say. Was successfully rebarreled during it day with up to the Improved Zipper and the R-2 both real pressure machines.

    • #29501
      Goodsteel
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      Reg;n8902 wrote: Stevens made the Tip Up,s , the Favorites and the 44,s in 25 rimfire and all seemed to work very well as the cartridge was low pressure. If I am not mistaken the .25 rimfire was also made in other brands as well, would have to refer to Grants books for sure.

      The 44 even the last versions were not strong enough to take the Hornet. It was a combination of flexing screws and the link lock up system that proved it,s undoing. Stevens even made the 44 in the Hornet for a very brief time but quickly withdrew it from the market as it just didn,t stand up. Fellow in town found one at a early gunshow years ago still in factory tight condition and it within 150 rounds shot itself loose to the point the lever would not stay up.
      The 44 1/2 on the other hand is a bird of another story. Strong enough to take a 06 some say. Was successfully rebarreled during it day with up to the Improved Zipper and the R-2 both real pressure machines.

      Speaking of which:

      http://www.gunbroker.com/item/576619124

    • #29502
      Reg
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      Goodsteel;n8906 wrote:

      Speaking of which:

      http://www.gunbroker.com/item/576619124

      Yikes !!!!!

    • #29503
      Goodsteel
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      Reg;n8907 wrote:

      Yikes !!!!!

      You might say the 44 1/2 is a “very appreciated rifle”.
      Har!

    • #29510
      Reg
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      To say the very least !

    • #29512
      Harter
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      Every time I see a thread like this it makes me want to trade two 22s for something on a rifle base for a 25 acp rifle base . Maybe a heritage 22 mag into 25 ACP . Same case length as LR and rim as the mag and reloadable . Balistics are a toss really . What a great way to start a kid.

    • #29513
      Reg
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      There are a few ways you can go with the older, weaker actions like the Stevens 44. A 25 ACP would be doable and more than likely more than safe but do keep in mind with these “wildcats” there is always a lot of head scratching and some of the two step. Two steps forward and one step back.
      It was Track of the Wolf or someone who sold ,252 or such liner material by the inch so a reline would be the way to go. There is a difference between a rifle chamber and a cylinder chamber and I am not sure exactly how a .25 Auto reamer would be cut. Dies and molds would be no problem.
      It could be easily doable but Man, my ol fingers would find it a real challenge just to hold the cases for reloading !!!!

      I did take one years ago and made up a wildcat based on the .38 Special case. Am sure I was not the first. It took several years of figgeren and fiddling but it did work out quite successful. Later took a shot out 1894 Marlin and set it up in the same caliber using a rebored 25-20 barrel that had been bored for a 32-20 but not chambered. By then we had all the bugs worked out and that 94 really was a lot of fun and took it’s fair share of rabbits .

      Heck, it’s only time and money !!!!!

    • #29514
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      Looks there is gold in a 441/2. To bad I don’t have one of those.

    • #29515
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      I’ve been working through the bugs for a 22 x 25 ACP for like 7 yr so there’s not much chance of me getting in a hurry now. I am angling on an inexpensive 22 mag/LR convertible revolver for just such a project the 25 acp has the same head dia as the mag and the same case length as the LR . With a 30 gr you should be able to beat the stingers and with a 50-60 gr a sub should be practical cottontail, coons and squirrels would never know what hit them .

    • #29519
      Reg
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      Are you thinking of necking the 25 ACP down to a .22 ?

    • #29520
      Sgt. Mike
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      as a semi -rimmed case the .25 acp could be swaged down into a thick cased 22.
      unless it’s bottlenecked

      Harter please do share your ideas so far my interest is high on this.

    • #29527
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      I’m thinking that a .15-.2 neck would be by far the easiest way get to a CF cartridge and the easiest to create a chamber for in a LR chamber of a magnum platform. (Psst I’m a mechanic not a machinist) . The most difficult part seems to be finding a cheap donor for the initial attempt.

      The basics of the plan are that there doesn’t seem to be a 25 ACP rifle.
      The case length of the 25 ACP and 22 LR are compatible.
      The rim of the 22 mag and 25 ACP are compatible ( I’ve tried a 25 case in several LR bolts and they seem to fit )
      As a semi rimmed the 25 ACP should be able to HS on the rim or the shoulder of fired brass .
      The 25 ACP also operates at about the same pressures as the RFs in question.
      It would cost 3-500 to have a “mini Mauser” type rifle rebarreled and the bolt fitted, the Contender family is beyond my grasp although I’m sure for $200 a 25 acp 16.5 barrel could be had . If I spend the money for 3 reamers ,rough,finish and sizer. I can have a dozen guns and die sets . If I go the way of a new rifle or rebarrel then an existing cartridge and platform is the best way to go . There’s no reason not to drop 2.5-3 gr of Unique in a 222 with a 35 gr bullet . The virtue of either the rework of a 22 x 25 ACP or a straight 25 ACP rifle is that we get 22 LR proformance in an available CF case and you can hand the kids 100 in a big pill bottle for $5. Plus the fun of a 22 cal that has so many bullets available.

      I had considered a 5.7 FN but the lack of a bolt action bolt face is a detractor and such cases have been less than desirable in revolvers.

      The last possibility for this exercise is of course a barrel liner for a break action 410 . Buy a long barrel blank, build a new extractor take an optimal length off a 24″ rifle bbl in 25 cal (because I’ll buy lots of 25 ACP factory ammo right ?) and use what’s left over for a revolver barrel. (As the image of a High Standard 25 ACP Buntline Special flashes through my mind)

      In a Heritage 22 mag /LR convertible revolver all that is lost is the $ 50-75 22 LR cylinder and if a $50 yard sale 22 rifle doesn’t work out we know a guy that can set a 20″ barrel back to 18.5 and fix the chamber . Mechanically the FP is not really a problem.

      There is the most recent version of the most remedial version of the scheme.

    • #29532
      Reg
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      Have you looked at the .22 Flea ?

    • #29536
      Harter
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      I seem to remember that , but I would have to dig back through the note books to see what I came up with for existing cartridges.

    • #29538
      Reg
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      I have some info also , was going to check into making one but went with necking down a 32 S&W long. More powder capacity, longer neck, etc.
      Have it up and going but too darned busy outside right now to mess with it, waiting for first frost then I can have my fun world back again.
      If you cannot find your info, let me know.

    • #29574
      Sgt. Mike
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      Harter, I just got a Winchester 121 donated for a project such as this, of course the idea is actually yours.
      What you are pointing out with the parent case is very true
      The Winchester 121 uses bolt lugs, a flat bolt face with a very small lip that could be dress flat with a file. that coupled with twin extractors, a single shot design
      feeding should be a simple issue.

      While waiting for your response, I contemplated how to do this.
      I was thinking of swaging the .25 ACP case down and leaving the rim at the 300″ish would have to be done in steps. But go the straight wall case versus a bottle neck. I think your choice of cases is a good one once I read it. The bottle neck is definitely a way to do it and allows for a bit more boiler room.

      Case forming:
      Right now not sure if outside turning or inside turning would be best to get a .010″ wall thickness after swaging down, I’m thinking that the .010″ would be thick enough to not have a frail neck area yet allow for the case to expand and seal in normal 22LR pressure range. The neck thickness of the cases I checked so far was around .013″ without any swaging down. Which should increase a little bit as the case diameter reduces. Which is why I’m thinking of reducing the wall thickness.

      Currently I’m thinking of exactly how to set up the dies first, I think I have a idea that would be pretty easy to do it.
      I could use something like the RCBS / Redding type neck sizing bushings in a holder to resize the case down as those pieces are hardened already without having to do any extra work. Just have to figure how much reduction for each step.
      This would be the first steps before even thinking about chambering the rifle.

      The picture I attached is just a representative stock photo of the rifle.

      While I have outlined my thoughts I would love to see your progress with the bottle neck that you are talking about. which should be easier in some respect than what I’m thinking of.

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