This topic contains 19 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Glenn 10 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #69031
     Glenn 
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    I had a little down time during hunting season, waiting on a wheel bearing/ hub assembly for my truck, so I decided it was time to work up a good load for my Kimber 6.5×55 M96 Swede.

    I have a bunch of once fired brass from Hansen factory ammo and ordered some Hornady 129 sst. They looked sexy and had favorable reviews.

    The m96 Swede has a terribly long throat so I seated the bullets out to just fit the magazine at 3.150″ and looked up some leloa with IMR 4350.  I rsn it up and down a little until I hit 44gns which gave 2728fps from the 22″ barrel, and this nice group at 75yds.

    I’ve got about 1 week left of hunting season to go and 3 more deer tags.

  • #69032
     Jniedbalski 
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    Nice rifle and group. I have a nice long 6.5 sweed 1896 oberndorf Mauser I got in the 90’s.  I paid 79$ for it when I had my ffl. I haven’t shot it for a few years but think I want to get this one out in the spring and get the dust off and see how it shoots

  • #69039
     Larry Gibson 
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    As it happens I have some initial 6.5 Swede pressure/velocity loads with IMR 4831 and the 129 gr Hornady SP ready to test.  I’m doing an initial work up with 3 rounds of each increment starting at 42 gr and working up in 1 gr increments to 50 gr.  Going to stop at the C.I.P (European equivalent of SAAMI) MAP of 56,000 psi.  I also have some 120 gr Remington Corelokt SPs with the same increments.

    Test rifle will be with a Sportered Mexican SR M98 action with a 22″ Swede milsurp barrel (was new, in the white, when I installed it).  It still has the milsurp chamber and throat as I was able to fit and headspace (minimum) without having to touch the chamber.

    I will post results here.

    Larry Gibson

     

  • #69045
     Glenn 
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    Sounds great, I very much would like to see your pressure and velocity data.

  • #69051
     Jniedbalski 
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    I would also like to see this info. I have been wanting to get this rifle out again. It’s been a few years  . I think it’s one of the best made rifles I have also one of the best looking.To me it’s almost a pice of art.

  • #69052
     Jniedbalski 
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    I would also like to see this info. What has me really interested is book loads from different companies on IMR 4831 there top end load and Larry’s top load with the Hornady SP.

  • #69055
     Glenn 
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    Isn’t the Swede supposed to be stronger than the other small ring Mausers?  I read somewhere that the actions were made in Germany with a Chromium tool steel that was supplied by Sweden.

  • #69056
     Jniedbalski 
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    If the story I seen was correct Germany got there steel from Sweden for there rifles. Sweden could not keep up with production so Germany made them also .    I thank this is what I found out but it’s been years ago. Also Sweden had a higher nickel,copper, vanadium  content in there steel.   My bolt looks as good as the day it was made 120 years ago. It does look like a non rusting tool steel is what they used.

  • #69057
     todd 
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    real good shootin!!!!!!!!

  • #69059
     kens 
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    I do know the Swedes are a strong action.

    I was developing some handloads one day and,,,,,,,,,,,,dont ask me how.

    When you open the bolt and the swede brass has a belt around it………….well ?????

  • #69065
     JRR 
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    “When you open the bolt and the swede brass has a belt around it………….well ?????”

    The first thing that comes to mind is American vs. European spec brass?

    The case with Am. brass is .473″ as in 30/06 -308 etc.  Euro spec is .480″ approx.

    Using Am. brass in a correct 6.5X55 chamber at reasonable high pressure will do that.

  • #69066
     kens 
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    Jrr,

    No you missed my point. The earlier post mentioned the strength of Swede actions.

    I had a handload that put a belt around the case head that looked like a belted magnum,,, the brass swelled up into the space between bolt & barrel…….I think that tells a lot about strength of a Swede.

  • #69067
     Larry Gibson 
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    Completed my initial psi work up today in the 6.5×55 Swede with IMR4831 and the Hornady 129 gr SP.  Cases were Winchester and the primers were WLRs.  Charges were weighed on a Redding balance scale that has been checked for accuracy with verified weights.  The AOL of the loaded cartridge was 3.041″.  Test rifle was a Mexican small ring M98 Mauser that I installed a new, in the white, Swede M38 barrel.  The factory chamber was used as I was able to set headspace at minimum when fitting the barrel.  The barrel was shortened to 22.4″.

    The strain gauge for the M43 Oehler was positioned over the chamber as per SAAMI location specifications.  Winchester Factory 140 gr SP ammunition was used as “reference ammunition”.  A factory technician gave me their pressure measurement for that lot of ammunition.  The psi measured in my test rifle was very close to that factory measurement.

    After setting up the equipment at the range it was 49 degrees with 49% humidity and a barometric pressure of 29.71.  I shot 3 rounds of each increment from 42 gr to 50 gr in 1 gr increments.  That gives me a good idea of the psi range of those increments.  I have used this method with numerous cartridges the last 8 years and have found it reliable.  However, we must remember, as with velocity averages of different tests of the same load, so will pressure averages vary.  Not by a lot usually but the do vary.  Also different lots of the same powder will also give some variation in velocity and pressure.  As an example I shot the beginning load of 42 gr and then at the end of the test I shot a 5 shot test of 42 gr but of a different lot of IMR4831.  The main lot of IMR4831 tested ran 2220 fps at 36,400 psi(M43) while the other lot tested ran 2300 fps at 36,100 psi(M43).

    Results of todays test of IMR4831 under the 129 gr Hornady SP;

    Load       FPS       psi(M43)

    42           2220         34,400

    43           2300         37,500

    44           2370         40,400

    45           2460         43,400

    46           2525         45,500

    47           2590         45,800

    48           2660         46,600

    49           2750          51,300

    50           2830          55,400

    As noted in earlier post the SAAMI MAP for the Swede is 51,000 psi (transducer/gauge) and the European CIP PMAP is 55,000 psi (transducer/gauge).  A load of 49 – 50 gr puts us in the CIP PMAP range which was what I was looking for.  Now I will load two ten shot tests of 49 gr, 49.5 gr and 50 gr of my lot of IMR4831 and test them in my M38 Swede “scout”.   Given the 24.7″ barrel of the M38 I expect velocity to be 2800 – 2900 fps.

  • #69069
     Larry Gibson 
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    Cogitating on the Swede I also have a jug of IMR4350 so I might do a similar psi workup with it under the 129 gr Hornady SP.

    Larry Gibson

  • #69072
     Glenn 
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    That would be really awesome Larry.

  • #69073
     Jniedbalski 
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    Thanks for the write up . Looking forward to loading for my sweed

  • #69074
     Larry Gibson 
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    Loaded up 5 rounds each of IMR 4350 under the 129 Hornady SP last night.  Loaded in 1 gr increments from 42 through 49 gr.  I will test them in the Swede scout rifle.  Probably won’t be until Monday or Tuesday though.

    Larry Gibson

     

  • #69075
     Jniedbalski 
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    On hodgens site it Has a 47 gr. as max load with that bullet and IMR 4831. It has the pressure at 45,100 so very close to what Larry got as for pressure. I always heard that the American load books or ammo where lower in psi than the European ammo or loads. Thanks again Larry for this info

  • #69089
     Larry Gibson 
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    Glenn

    Yesterday I completed the additional psi work up in the 6.5×55 Swede with IMR 4350 as and the Hornady 129 gr SP.  Cases were Winchester and the primers were WLRs.  Charges were weighed on a Redding balance scale that has been checked for accuracy with verified weights.  The AOL of the loaded cartridge was 3.041″.  Test rifle for this test was My M38 Carl Gustaf “scout”.  The rear sight had been removed and a Redfield style base modified to fit so the Leupold 2X Scout scope could be correctly mounted.  The bolt was converted to cock on opening and the bolt handle forged.  It was then pillar bedded in a composite stock making for a nice handling lightweight “scout”.  The rear of the base has a Redfield flip up aperture for emergency use and I replaced the barleycorn front sight with a blade front sight.

    The strain gauge for the M43 Oehler was positioned over the chamber as per SAAMI location specifications.  Winchester Factory 140 gr SP ammunition was used as “reference ammunition”.

    After setting up the equipment at the range it was 48 degrees with 40% humidity and a barometric pressure of 30.13.  I had tests made up of 5 rounds of each increment from 42 gr to 49 gr in 1 gr increments of IMR 4350.  The initial 5 shot tests, while not as definitive as 10 shot tests, will give us a good idea of what to expect.  Again, let us remember; as with velocity, averages of different tests of the same load vary, so will pressure averages vary test string to test string.  Not by a lot usually but they do vary.  And different lots of the same powder will also give some variation in velocity and pressure lot to lot.

    My initial test yesterday was a 10 shot test of this “reference” ammunition to confirm the M43 System was “calibrated” and working correctly with this rifle.  The factory measured psi was 37,900 and should give 2400 – 2475 fps in 24” barrels.  Yesterdays test gave pretty much that with 37,900 psi at 2454 fps (muzzle).  The 10 shot group at 100 yards (remember it’s only a 2X scope) was just under 2 moa.

    I then shot a 10 shot test of my “big game” load which is the 140 gr Hornady SP over 49 gr H4831SC in the Winchester cases with WLR primers to an OAL of 3.112”.  The muzzle velocity was 2745 fps at 54,500 psi….just under the C.I.P. PMAP.  Those 10 shots went into less than 1.5 moa at 100 yards.

    Results of yesterday’s test of IMR4350 under the 129 gr Hornady SP;

    Load       FPS (muzzle)       psi(M43)

    42               2514                  41,000

    43               2611                  44,400

    44              2642                   45,500

    45              2697                   47,800

    46              2747                   50,100

    47              2810                   54,000

    I did not test the 48 and 49 gr loads as the psi would have probably been in the high 58+k and 60+k range which is over the C.I.P. PMAP.  The 5 shots of the 47 gr load went into 1.1” at 100 yards.  It is a very good load as as the 10 fps SD and 22 fps ES indicates.

    As a final test I shot a 10 shot test of my previously developed 129 gr Hornady SP using IMR4831.  It hovers right around the 55,000 psi C.I.P. PMAP +/- and today’s was a tudge on the plus side which was expected given I had not cleaned the barrel after the previous 80 shots had been fired.  The velocity was 2927 fps at 55,700 psi and the 10 shots went into 1.4” at 100 yards centered exactly 1.6” above point of aim for a 200 yard zero.  The 300, 400 and 500 yard drop is 7, 21 and 42” with 1960+ fps remaining at 500 yards.  It makes for an excellent coyote, deer.and antelope load.

    Hope you find this information useful as I have with an added powder (IMR 4350) to use in my own 6.5x55s.

    Hold hard, shoot straight…..

    Larry Gibson

  • #69090
     Glenn 
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    Excellent, thank you very much sir.  I will print this off and add it to my 6.5 Swede folder.

    After hunting season is over, I may have to give 4831 a try as I wouldn’t mind having a little more velocity.

    Thanks again, I really do appreciate the info.

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