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The rainier bullets I tried where for my 40 S&w pistole and carbine. I got them as left overs from a guy at work who loaded some of them up for qualifying and didint use them all. So I got the rest of the bullets to try. I thank they where the 165 gr hp bevel base extra thick plating. I really didint care at the time if they expanded any because all I was shooting was paper. I tried looking on the net and calling rainier to find out what the bhn was but they would not tell me. To me they seemed kind of hard but no way to test hardness. They did shoot really good for me expecally in my high point carbine

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