June 15, 2017 at 6:36 pm #45730
This is the second attempt at this posting .
Anyway this post has a couple of purposes one is a test drive on the new forum.. the other information on three Glock models that I’m considering…. sorry gents I make my choices slow, unless it is a steal which I know I can flip at a profit quickly. Any way let’s dive into the Glock comparison, because I don’t like the grip angle on the double stack Glocks I have chosen the new single stack line up. As i suspect I would find joy with a greatly reduced footprint.
Now before I begin I am NOT a Glock fan at all, but I do know that they make a totally reliable pistol that is easy to use. One reason I’m considering this brand is one it’s a Glock and you can’t really truly fall in love with it, like a finely tuned 1911 or that fine revolver with a sweet trigger that is as accurate as one could ever wish for. When involved in a self defense situation the reality is that the Police will confiscate your pistol for a bit longer time than the investigation. With choosing a Glock it’s just another Glock which in most cases is what they (police) carry, a finely 1911 says sign me out of the evidence room and let’s go play. The other aspect is it makes your defense easy because it’s doesn’t scream hey I bought a custom high performance killing machine to the the libtard District Attorney. (no I’m not anti Police here folks just stating the facts). And I don’t think they (Police) abuse their authority in these matters just cautious.
G43 G42 G36
CALIBER/SYSTEM 9×19 / Safe Action .380 AUTO / Safe Action .45 AUTO / Safe Action
LENGTH 159 mm / 6.26 in. 151 mm / 5.94 in. 177 mm / 6.96 in.
HEIGHT 108 mm / 4.25 in. 105 mm / 4.13 in. 121 mm / 4.76 in.
WIDTH 26 mm / 1.02 in. 24 mm / 0.94 in. 28.00 mm / 1.10 in.
BARREL HEIGHT n/a n/a 32 mm / 1.26 in.
BETWEEN SIGHTS 132 mm / 5.20 in 125 mm / 4.92 in. 150 mm / 5.91 in.
BARREL LENGTH 86 mm / 3.39 in. 82.5 mm / 3.25 in. 96 mm / 3.77 in.
WEIGHT (Unloaded) 509 g / 17.95 oz. 390 g / 13.76 oz. 635 g / 22.42 oz.
WEIGHT (Loaded) 634 g / 22.36 oz. ~490 g / ~17.29 oz. 765 g / 27.00 oz.
TRIGGER PULL ~2.5 kg / ~5.5 lbs. ~25 N / ~5.5 lbs. ~2.5 kg / ~5.5 lbs.
TRIGGER TRAVEL ~12.5 mm / ~0.49 in. ~12.5 mm / ~0.49 in. ~12.5 mm / ~0.49 in.
BARREL RIFLING right hand, hexagonal right hand, hexagonal right hand, octogonal
LENGTH OF TWIST 250 mm / 9.84 in. 250 mm / 9.84 in. 400 mm / 15.75 in.
(STANDARD) 6 6 6
The Glock 42 (380 ACP) I have test drove a little bit, the pistol works well in my hands. The pistol points naturally. Taking a mix of ammunition that jams and does not function in other pistols results no jams or misfeeds. This was a clean pistol oiled correctly.
Placed the target at 20 feet turn the lights out in the indoor range off except enough to barely make out the silhouette target fired two mags rapid fire, 2 did not hit center mass they went into the neck. Reloaded the mags dropped the heavily oiled pistol into a sand pit so that it would pick up the max amount of sand, no shaking. Again random mix of ammo, fired two mags 20 feet rapid fire again all but one center mass.
Next came the Glock 43 (9mm) the results was pretty much the same and I preferred the grip a little bit more as both of the these pistols had the magazine extensions applied otherwise the grip would have been too short for my hand. Results flawless ran the same it through the procedure accuracy was a off a little bit compared to the 42 , one stage I had only a 50% center mass hit, the other stage 75% center mass.
What I have not test drove yet is the Glock 36 (45acp) which is next…. if it performs as well as the 42 and 43 well heck it is a no brainer.. a 45 in under 2 lbs loaded .
June 15, 2017 at 6:46 pm #45734
WTH , no more editing hmmmm, everytime I hit submit the alignment was perfect . Oh well I think ya’ll can still make out the make part of the comparison
June 20, 2017 at 11:13 am #45817
You’re probably having trouble with the alignment because you are using spaces and a proportional font for the post.
I’m not sure whether WordPress supports a subset of HTML or BBCode tags. I’ll do a quick test here…
<TABLE> <TR> <TD>Col #1.1</TD> <TD>Col #1.2</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD>Col #2.1</TD> <TD>Col #2.2</TD> </TR> </TABLE>
Hmmm… No preview? OK… I’ll submit it and look it over… Stand by… 🙂
Nope… That didn’t work… Went back and put a code tag around it so that it’s possible to see what I tried…
Try it with the square brackets like in BBCode…
[TABLE] [TR] [TD]Col #1.1[/TD] [TD]Col #1.2[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Col #2.1[/TD] [TD]Col #2.2[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
Nope… That didn’t work either… Added code tag around it also…
So, maybe it’s case sensitive? Try that…
<table> <tr> <td>Col #1.1</td> <td>Col #1.2</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Col #2.1</td> <td>Col #2.2</td> </tr> </table>
Nope… That didn’t work… added code tag around it…
Maybe you could just try making your table using the code tag around it so that it uses a fixed font? Something like this?
G43 G42 G36 CALIBER/SYSTEM 9×19 .380 AUTO .45 AUTO Safe Action Safe Action Safe Action LENGTH 159 mm / 6.26 in. 151 mm / 5.94 in. 177 mm / 6.96 in. HEIGHT 108 mm / 4.25 in. 105 mm / 4.13 in. 121 mm / 4.76 in. WIDTH 26 mm / 1.02 in. 24 mm / 0.94 in. 28.00 mm / 1.10 in. BARREL HEIGHT n/a n/a 32 mm / 1.26 in. BETWEEN SIGHTS 132 mm / 5.20 in 125 mm / 4.92 in. 150 mm / 5.91 in. BARREL LENGTH 86 mm / 3.39 in. 82.5 mm / 3.25 in. 96 mm / 3.77 in. WEIGHT (Unloaded) 509 g / 17.95 oz. 390 g / 13.76 oz. 635 g / 22.42 oz. WEIGHT (Loaded) 634 g / 22.36 oz. ~490 g / ~17.29 oz. 765 g / 27.00 oz. TRIGGER PULL ~2.5 kg / ~5.5 lbs. ~25 N / ~5.5 lbs. ~2.5 kg / ~5.5 lbs. TRIGGER TRAVEL ~12.5 mm ~12.5 mm ~12.5 mm ~0.49 in. ~0.49 in. ~0.49 in. BARREL RIFLING right hand, right hand, right hand, hexagonal hexagonal octogonal LENGTH OF TWIST 250 mm / 9.84 in. 250 mm / 9.84 in. 400 mm / 15.75 in. MAGAZINE CAPACITY 6 6 6 (STANDARD)
OK… That was close… Just ran into a limit on the width of the line and text went to the next line… Changed magazine capacity to “STD”… See if that works… Nope… Still wraps around on my monitor…
OK… Try moving it to the next line and shoving things a bit closer… Nope… Still too long of lines… Too bad the system doesn’t just have a horizontal slider for lines that are too long…
Now try separating things into multiple lines and reducing the spacing a bit…
OK… That worked… So, that is one way of getting things to line up like you want, but it’s kind of painful trying to work around the line width limit that is different when you are editing than when it is displayed. As you can see by the edit history, it took me a few experiments…
And if you change the font size in your browser, all of this is for naught and lines extend past the maximum width again.
June 15, 2017 at 7:25 pm #45736
One of the pistols that I currently use is a Sig Sauer P6 (aka P225 in civilian dress)
Weight: 26.1 oz (740 g)
Length: 7.1″ (180 mm)
Height: 5.2″ (132 mm)
Width: 1.30″ (33 mm)
Barrel Length: 3.9″ (99 mm)
Sight Radius: 5.7″ (145 mm)
———–One of the other is my Colt Combat Commander in Satin Nickel ——
Chambering: .45 ACP
Barrel Length: 4.25-inch.
Overall Length: 7.75-inch.
Overall Width: 1.30-inch. (at the grips)
Overall Height: 5.30-inch
Weight unloaded: 36 oz. / 2.25 lb. [Steel model]. 37 oz. / 2.31 lb [Stainless Steel model]
Magazine: Single-column box magazine. 7-round, 8-round
———- The last semi That I’m likely to carry is a Government Model ——–
Cartridge: .45 ACP
Barrel: 5 in (127 mm)
Rate of twist: 16 in (406 mm) .45 ACP)
Operation: Recoil-operated, closed breech, single action, semi-automatic
Weight (unloaded): 2 lb 7 oz (39 oz)
Height: 5.25 in (133 mm)
Length: 8.25 in (210 mm)
Capacity: 7+1 rounds (7 in standard-capacity magazine +1 in firing chamber); 8+1 in aftermarket standard-size magazine
June 20, 2017 at 12:53 pm #45830uber7mmParticipant
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Tables look right as you type them in, but then are saved as code only for some reason:
June 20, 2017 at 1:56 pm #45841
Interesting… Click on “Text”… Type the HTML in… Then click on “Visual” and it shows the table like it should… But then after clicking “SUBMIT”, it goes back and interprets it as just text instead of HTML…
June 21, 2017 at 9:51 pm #45873
Well Gents finally landed on a Glock to carry at the shop. I was leaning between the Glock 36 or 43 at first just did not want to dump the cost of a new glock to be just for when I’m working.
The winner is a Gen 2.5 model 27 (circa 1996) in .40 S&W, not crazy over the caliber but it is a usable viable chambering. And it shoots quite well for a defensive pistol. The Model 27 is able to utilize two different conversation barrels to change caliber, one is the .357 Sig (Glock 33) which does not require a magazine change per se. The other is 9mm (Glock 26) which would require a magazine change. There are other work arounds for this Poly pistol such as the grip being quite small (see X-grip adapter http://x-grips.com/glock/26-27/).
Today I dropped the .357 Sig barrel in and took it for a drive the little 3.46″ barrel was quite load and the muzzle blast was definitely attention getting with 125 gr full house loads, just about everyone stopped shooting on the range. Reminded me of shooting a .357 Maag outta a 2 1/2″ barrel model 19. The pistol was as gunrag writers say was “snappy” accuracy was OK, figure about 200-300 rounds I’ll have her dialed in LOL.
I like the weight for all day carry, the three options for calibers are quite acceptable for carry. I Still like my 1911’s and Sig’s better, but hey for beating around the shop it is a good fit so far. Rest of the time the 1911’s get the nod while this Glock is accurate enough the Sig (P6 aka P225) and 1911’s put it to shame.
June 23, 2017 at 10:25 pm #45908
The one you selected seems a bit large for concealed carry unless you are in winter garb. For me, the 43 is the best Glock option in summer attire.
The caliber selection is interesting. A decade ago I settled on the .40 S&W as the best compromise between stopping power of .45 ACP and magazine capacity of 9mm. Now, I’m back to carrying mostly 9mm due to conceability. My Kel-Tec PF9 is likely my first choice. The Springfield XD in .45 ACP has more authority, but is not easy to conceal.
As for the .357 Sig, why? Is it really better than the .40 S&W? Short of a few water filled milk jugs, I have no experience with it. I do know it is somewhat more cantankerous to reload for.
June 25, 2017 at 12:40 am #45920
Well Charlie, the model 27 (classified as a sub compact model) is not much larger than the 43 yet in 40 S&W.
Glock 43 weight loaded 22.36 oz Overall length 6.26″ height 4.25″ width 1.02″ 6 round capacity
Glock 27 weight loaded 27.0 oz Overall Length 6.49″ height 4.17″ width 1.18″ 9 round capacity
So 5 oz heavier loaded, 1/4″ longer in length, 1/8″ wider in width, height is pretty much a wash 3 more larger rounds for about half the price than the 43.
While I say I’m not a 40 Fan I do respect the caliber and this one shoots well enough to fatal T on demand.
Why am I mentioning the .357 Sig caliber, well the 27 converts easily. Is it the best choice, not really sure yet. I’ve always been interested in the caliber, which gives Almost 357 magnum ballistics (583 ft lbs energy, 1450 fps) . This round is the current choice of Federal Air Marshals as well as the Secret Service. Right now I’m just playing with the two different calibers to see which one I like best. The other upside to the .357 Sig is I don’t have to invest in Molds or swaging equipment to reload, even though it has been stated the caliber is difficult to load for. That will not be the sole deciding factor. But either choice will mean a purchase of a set of dies.
June 25, 2017 at 2:49 am #45924
Personally, I prefer the 9×23 / .38 SuperComp over the .357 SIG. Being a straight walled case, it is easier to load for and the cases seem to last longer. It will also give you an extra round in most mags compared to the .40SW or .357 SIG.
June 25, 2017 at 8:29 am #45926
Super or super comp are awesome calibers.
June 25, 2017 at 9:41 am #45930
But, they’re full length cartridges and if you’re going to go with that length, you might as well go with a full power 10mm load. But those full power 10mm loads are not for the modern metro-sexual girly-man FBI agent, that’s why they came up with the .40SW. The .357 SIG allows them to have a bit more penetration for those cases where they might need to shoot through the back of an aircraft seat or even *through* a hostage in order to also stop the hijacker, while still being small enough for those girly-man hands. 🙂
I took a mid-size RIA M1911 (double stack) that came in .22TCM/9mm and converted it to what is basically .38 SuperCooper. I make my brass out of cut down .223 brass. Personally, I consider it a pretty compact gun to carry.
June 25, 2017 at 10:54 am #45931
Tim at one point mentioned an absolute great caliber when I was deciding this. But I had rejected it based on the size of the frame and weight. It was the 10mm auto which gives almost 41 mag ballistics, much the same as the supposed statements that the 357 Sig offers almost 357 Mag ballistics and in both cases that is as long as you dont go heavy with the bullet weights. Even though I could have picked a Glock in the caliber (10mm Auto) albeit a bit more in cost for the pocket book than my choice.
Navy Vet yes I’ll agree the 9×23 is great choice, a butt load easier to reload, gives great ballistics. But I didn’t know I was a metro girly FBI Type 😉 (hahaha, ok some humor there hopefully) . But if employed correctly there are multiple cartridge that could be used for this. Are the two calibers I picked the absolute best ? No, but they are not ineffective , the same can be said for every caliber mentioned with none of them wrong, just they all offer pros and cons.
Most on here know I play with the 38/45 clearke (ACP) in one of my 1911’s which is a dual caliber. This offering (.357 Sig) goes down that same path but using a differing case. Right now most of my playing with this pistol has been with the factory offering .40 S&W.
Before finally pulling the trigger so to speak I had the Glock 43 in 9mm and the 36 in 45 ACP in the lead. What I purchased was not even in my consideration list. It caries way lighter than my 1911, conceals in the back pocket of my jeans. regardless of which barrel I put in it I can effectively employ it within the environment that I carry it.
While I sound much like I’m defending this choice, I look forward to the opinions and train of thought ya’ll put out there on the table. As when I’m helping customers picking their concealed carry I have to run this gambit with them. In which case I generally get them to stay in a minimum caliber choice of .380 and up bigger is better and pick what fits their hands , what they shoot best. if they cannot effective engage the target then it doesn’t matter how much power the cartridge offers. Having a range that has rental pistols of almost everything we sell helps in this. Again thanks to everyone that is posting and offering their choices in this post.
June 25, 2017 at 2:22 pm #45935
You said that your Sig and 1911 are WAY more accurate. Can you give group sizes of each at 25 yds?
I’m considering a Glock in 10mm. I already have a 10mm EAA witness all steel. Nice to shoot, but it will pull your pants off in the holster.
June 25, 2017 at 4:38 pm #45936
The Government 1911a1 in 45 acp and the P6 Sig will hold between 2 to 3.5″ at 25 yards for 50 shots. On occasion when I not on my end of the bargain it will exceed. The Glock so far has been pretty good.
It’s pretty small actually also it is a Gen 2.5 which puts its production date around 1996
here is how the 357 sig performs
June 25, 2017 at 4:57 pm #45937
Ohh I did not tell the distance,,,, sorry gents. Because I’m limited to a 30 foot (10 yards) indoor range, when I retired no more signing out a range, now I use the one at the gun shop which at the longest I can setup is 45 feet (15 yards). The pink target was shot at 27 feet (9 yards). All except for the last target was shot with the 40 S&W barrel, the last target was shot with the 357 Sig.
The first target picture was the first one I fired before purchasing.. the others was me wringing her out the best ones (yesterday, I was doing head shots in the fatal tee area) I unfortunately threw away without taking any pictures. Much like any pistol this one requires some practice to keep the skills up.
June 25, 2017 at 5:50 pm #45938
Looking at the 10mm offerings……
The Glock 29 is a subcompact standard mag is at 10 rounds.
Loaded weight is at 33.01 oz …height 4.44″ length 6.96″ ……. bore height is 1.26″
The 20SF is 15 rounds
Loaded weight is 39.54 oz .. height 5.47″ Length 8.03″ …. bore height is 1.26″
The 20 is a little bit heavier and longer magazine cap is the same.
weight loaded 39.71 oz … height 5.47″ Length 8.22″ .. bore height is again 1.26″
now for the big boy the Glock 40 gen4 MOS, the magazine capacity is 15
loaded weight is 40.14 oz height 5.47″ Length 9.49″ bore height is not specified.
The EAA witness you mention is a solid pistol Charlie, what the Glock will offer is reduced weight and ease of carry, the witness is 42ish oz empty.
What you are describing Charlie is exactly why I chose the sub compact versions. They do require a bit more effort to be useful, putting a death grip on the pistol (strong hand) seems to help with the frame flex that some claim, what I noticed is my groups tightened up. Is the Glock the best hammer ? No maybe not .. but it is easier to carry, lighter, and nowhere the grief involved in giving up your favorite pistol. It fit my requirement and I’m happy with what I have.
June 25, 2017 at 10:17 pm #45948
it is easier to carry, lighter, and nowhere the grief involved in giving up your favorite pistol
That’s why it is the best tool for the job Sarge.
Lets be honest. What people want is not able to be had. ie:
1. The power of a 44 magnum
2. Easy to carry as a PPK
3. As precise a handgun as a S&W 41 22lr.
4. Easily fed ammo that’s readily available/reloadable for copious amounts of practice
4. Controllable recoil for follow up shots
5. Easily replaceable in case you ever use it for the intended purpose.
Getting all this in a single sidearm is impossible and compromises must be made.
The Glock is one of the finest compromises to all these objectives ever produced by any manufacturer. 357Sig, 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP…….pay your money and take your choice, its a very hard package to beat unless you are unwilling to compromise on some aspect (like if you insist on a solid steel sidearm and have an aversion to Tupperware).
June 26, 2017 at 4:52 pm #45956
Yeah the tupperware Glocks, Smith&Wesson, & Springfields are not for everyone. I’ll be the first to agree, my conventional wisdom says to carry a steel on steel, but the issue of weight comes in when carrying a full sized caliber for 8 hours plus. I could have easily chose a compact 1911 that empty would be heavier than the tupperware model fully loaded I picked. If I could get away with a thigh rig for 8 hours plus like I’m used to in the military the weight would not be consideration.
The other aspect of what I did not list was I had a set amount of money and that was it. Hence the used Gen 2.5 model the cost was where I needed it. There are a couple of Springfield models that could have filled the space, with the promotion of 4 free mags, a holster, and magazine pouch ( the offer goes dead on 30 june 2017) are a head turner for sure. But cost was outside of where I needed it.
The restrictions that I had on this purchase was:
2. Reliability with any type of ammo that could be feed into it, as well as conditions.
3. As large a caliber that I could effectively employ within 45 feet. The model 36 in 45 ACP did well, the model 43 was a sweetheart. I liked what Glock did with those two single stack models the capacity did not play in with my consideration. If I have 5-6 rounds I can make it work. I have not heard of too many self defense needs of 25 yards — prosecuting attorneys would probably charge you with manslaughter at that distance in Arkansas . You have ample distance to avoid the situation and remove yourself. Of course situation would dictate the actual outcome such as the assailant has engaged you personally. Most self defense shooting statistics recorded are in less than 7 yards, which is why I chose the 45 feet max and actually shot at 27 to 30 ft.
I wish Charlie was close, I’d put a Glock 29 in his hands on the range downstairs and let him try it out on the range at work to see if it is a fit for his needs.
June 26, 2017 at 9:12 pm #45958
You know, you make a point that reminds me of a shooting session I had at a buddy’s house several years ago. I showed up with my 1911 long slide and the S&W 19-2. Both of which I had extensively worked over and tuned up like a Stradivarius violin. I was shooting better than he was no matter which firearm he chose to use. That was just an unspoken observation. It was not a contest beyond that which perpetually exists amongst men of our bent of mind, but when he’s shooting a rifle and I’m shooting my 19 and I’m still making more consistent hits……….
At a certain point he decided to change the game a little bit and asked if I had ever done any speed steel, or fast shooting (which I had not at that time).
He put a sheet of carboard up at 5 yards and drew a 12″ circle on it as a target (which drew quite the internal smirk from me let me assure you!). He said “Now the object here is to get all your shots in the 12″ circle while you’re pulling the trigger like your life depends on it”.
I asked him if he wouldn’t really like to move the target back a little further? To which he said “If you’ve never done this, trust me, this is close enough!”
I stepped up to the target and pulled my long slide and dumped the magazine into the target. I don’t remember exactly how I did, but I know I didn’t get all my shots in the circle and I was dumbfounded. Furthermore, I watched in dumbfounded shock as the man who I had just beaten at 65 yards+ with my revolver, pulled his compact 1911 and ripped off all his shots with shocking speed and put them all in a baseball sized group in the middle of the 12″ circle.
I got owned, but I learned something important that day.
June 26, 2017 at 9:17 pm #45959
I want it all! And, for free!!
OMG, I sound like a liberal. LOL. LOL! LOL!! LOL!!!
Concealability is a major consideration. I find myself carrying my Kel-Tec PF-9 most of the time. The P3AT when taking out the trash in my pajamas.
July 31, 2017 at 9:36 pm #46371HarterParticipant
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For what it’s worth . Ms has small hands and while managing larger calibers slow fire but lighter is better .
A 27 side by side with an LCP and over lay .
src=”http://goodsteelforum.com/wp-content/uploads/hm_bbpui/46371/7a9wgqa4ga6a7w90ufgt9ivnzngzrptp.jpg” alt=”LCP over #27″ width=”518″ height=”448″ />
With me driving they are about equal . The LCP is harder to keep on target . More than 4 in the top half of a short cutout beyond 15yd .
The 27 is much easier to double,double,triple all in the center to shoulder . 8×8 stepping into 16×32 .
I prefer the XD40 and High Power clone but if I was CC and needed a pocket class gun the 27 would be a go to choice .
August 1, 2017 at 1:59 pm #46378Doc44Participant
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Sgt. Mike I enjoy your critical approach to the subject and being able to test drive the firearms is a huge advantage. Using the same method my wife and I settled on the S&W shield , hers in 9mm mine in 45acp. When it fits your hand the hits are easier and the Glocks never fit my hand well.
September 2, 2017 at 8:09 am #46889
Sorry for the late response Doc.. The glock doesnt fit my hand well either except for the 43 and 42.
On the 27 I wound up using mag extensions and several other tricks offered on the market to help in the hand fitting.
Been using the 357 Sig cartridge a bit now plain and simple it is just a good shooter, may not be the best hammer in the tool box but then again every hand gun caliber has that issue. The 27 is my daily carry for several reasons one and most important is in the event that I use it and am forced to surrender it it’s just a Glock that I really have no love for. As a Glock is just a Glock so to speak. Not that Glock are bad, but one usually doesnt really get attached to them such as that finely tuned 1911 or that ultra sweet wheel gun.
This one is working out quite well so far for my purposes not the greatest but a honest working daily carry.
December 27, 2017 at 8:11 pm #48397ArtfulParticipant
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Wife picked up a Glock 43, out of all the rental guns and compact guns I own she shot the glock best.
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