This topic contains 31 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  Darren McCann 2 weeks, 2 days ago.

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  • #34511
     timspawn 
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    Tim,
    If I were to buy a new rifle for a build today, would you recommend a Remington or a Ruger?

  • #34512
     Harter 
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    Depends . What is the final quest ?

  • #34513
     timspawn 
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    An accurate rifle that requires the least amount of tweaking by Tim. I have heard that current Remingtons require a lot of work.

  • #34514
     Harter 
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    When Tim builds a rifle he does the whole thing or at least checks every detail lathe chucked ( in the least scientific explanation) . In the case of a bolt gun tuned for precision either 1 would be a good choice , he has done some work in less common actions and delivered excellent rifles of outstanding consistency .

  • #34517
     timspawn 
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    Harter;n15549 wrote: When Tim builds a rifle he does the whole thing or at least checks every detail lathe chucked ( in the least scientific explanation) . In the case of a bolt gun tuned for precision either 1 would be a good choice , he has done some work in less common actions and delivered excellent rifles of outstanding consistency .

    I understand, I’m just asking which action is better out of the box.

  • #34519
     Goodsteel 
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    There are no guarantees. That said, I’d take the Ruger in a heartbeat.
    But an FN M70? Dooooooooooood………

  • #34521
     Waksupi 
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    I prefer the M70m due to the simple trigger, and the three position wing safety.

  • #34522
     seaboltm 
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    Zg 47, if you can find one.

  • #34524
     kens 
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    Goodsteel;n15554 wrote: There are no guarantees. That said, I’d take the Ruger in a heartbeat.
    But an FN M70? Dooooooooooood………

    What about the Demoulin mauser actions seen on the internet?

  • #34537
     Goodsteel 
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    Are you judging the M77 by the same standard? Match barrel, bedding, custom trigger, and proper stock? A typical Ruger barrel from the past 50 years would leave a bad taste in anyone’s mouth, but it hardly speaks to the quality of the action, which I’ve found to be very good.

  • #34541
     Scharfschuetze 
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    My experience was with factory heavy barrel Model 77s in 308 Winchester that I wanted to use for the Silhouette game which was popular in the late 70s and 80s. I did fiberglass bed them and used very good Redfield or Weaver target scopes on them. They just wouldn’t shoot well enough to shoot with the big boys. I loved the stock design: but in the end, I bought a Remington 700 Varmint in 308 for the Silhouette matches. That made a huge difference. 1 MOA compared to 3 MOA at all the normal Silhouette ranges.

    I might add though, that the US Palma team was issued M77s Palma rifles made especially for them at one point when I was shooting Palma matches. One of my shooting buddies was on that team and he reported that the rifles just would not compete accuracy wise with other action types. They never used them beyond practice. M77s are never seen as bolt action match rifles in the National Match course. They apparently will not shoot with the Remingtons and the Winchesters that are still popular in that accuracy driven game.

    That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it! 🙂

  • #34544
     Goodsteel 
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    You have your opinion. I have mine.

    If you have a janky barrel, bedding the action isn’t going to help you. Adding a pressure point might convince some folks, but a match shooter will see the difference as being nothing more than a basket of rotten fruit moved one shelf higher.

    Rifle precision is about the barrel. Period. The various sundry details of the action do not even come into the picture until you’re working with a sub 1MOA rifle, and the whole blueprinting thing does exactly one thing, and that is to put the firing pin in the middle of the primer. But if you’re so concerned about that, you will certainly use no other brass than Lapua because theyre the only jokers that can juggle that many balls.
    Yes, I have measured it. I’ve measured the M77s, the Remington 700s, the Winchester 70, Savage, Surgeon, mini Mauser, FN, and any Mauser you can imagine. I’ve built precision rifles on all of them (it’s actually a pretty impressive number of rifles that have run through this place!).
    Anywho, I never saw an action that definitely convinced me that it contributed to the accuracy equation unless it was soooooo goshdam sloppy the case head was the thing that aligned the bolt in the receiver. (that was BAD, but at least it was just a hunting rifle!).
    Other than that one, I’ve put people into a sub 3/4″ rifle with every action that has come through this place. We can talk about Ruger quality till the cows come home, but surely you’d agree that its better than a Turkish Mauser eh? Ask JRR how a MBT precision rifle shoots when its built on a Turk. 😉

    BjornB has one of the M77s I’ve built. I’ve got the ten shot stapled to my wall of fame. Group measures .568 for ten shots at 100. The range officer at the Arkansas game and fish range also shot that rifle. We swapped it back and forth between us and shot 4 10 shot sub 5/8″ groups.

    I don’t have the luxury of bias. All rifles come in shooting like garbage, or less than they used to, and all of them MUST LEAVE SHOOTING TEN SHOTS SUB MOA. It tears me up when I fail to make a shooter out of any lemon you might bring me. I cannot stand getting skunked, and it’s only happened two or three times, and each one had a questionable barrel on it. No rifle I have built with a Krieger barrel has failed to produce competitive groups. The smallest I’ve shot here was with a rifle built for BjornB at .314 for 10 shots.
    The average ten shot group with any rifle built here is .6-.75 MOA across the board. I’m not saying this to brag, I’m just saying that I’ve come to a point where I really don’t pay the action much mind until you start talking about ultra precision, in which case, it’s better to start with a BAT, Bernard, Surgeon etc etc etc.
    That’s my experience. I’ve been stuck behind a Winchester that wouldn’t shoot better than 4MOA with hand loads. That’s a big part of the reason I am what I am today, but I didn’t blame the name rolled onto the receiver except to say “these jokers screwed a janky pipe into this perfectly wonderful action?”.

    Now, you’ll never hear me defend Ruger factory barrel quality (at least, not that of the past 50 years) but for how bad the barrels were, I’m actually fairly impressed with the quality of the actions. I’ve built on M77s from the 70s, 90’s and late models, and they’re quality is more consistent and unchanging than any other American action. Remington and Winchester have both made their flagship rifles with less QC than Russian Mosin Negants at one time or another and I had to make those POS’s shoot. One Remington I just finished for a friend of Larry Gibson’s was the worst yet. The receiver threads were .020 off center, and the top of the action was so badly out of spec that I had to bed the rail to the top of the receiver bridges! What I heard yesterday was that he was shooting .6-.7MOA groups with that rifle though.:rolleyes:
    Point is, I doubt Ruger EVER let something that bad out of their shop.

    Other reasons I would take the Ruger:
    It’s the last remaining family owned American mega firearms producer.
    Ruger warrants their stuff against defect better than anyone.
    It’s the only American made CRF at this point (other than Montana and I’m not sure they make their own stuff).
    Timney makes a very nice trigger for it, and they will set it to any weight you require if you order direct 😎

  • #34557
     Sgt. Mike 
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    Ruger M77 was originally designed about 1968, it was modified Mauser a push feed, in 1991 the bolt was redesigned and named MKII a quasi controlled round feed.
    The action is an investment casting.
    Just information, nothing else, I have my opinion of Ruger M77 (note i did not use MK II or Hawkeye) and I will keep them to myself.

  • #34558
     Waksupi 
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    I just recalled a gripe I have against Rugers. Years ago, I had one chambered in .338 Win Mag. It was as accurate as could be expected for off the rack. The problem was, when the safety was on, the bolt wasn’t locked into place. One fall I was hunting the Great Bear Wilderness, and was working across a heavy brushed mountain side. The brush caught the bolt handle, peeled it back, and ejected a cartridge. I didn’t think all that much about it, until it happened again, and the bolt came completely out of the rifle. Not good, when you are 28 miles of rough trail on horse back in the mountains, and no spare rifle.
    I quickly came to the conclusion the rifle was fine for prairie hunting maybe, or for a shooting range. Not something I could depend on though, and it was traded for a M70 shortly thereafter.

  • #34559
     Waksupi 
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    Heck, if you want to build a rifle from the ground up, get one of the top actions on the market, buy a Defiance action.

  • #34566
     Sgt. Mike 
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    The newer ones now lock, a bit late for your use then, but now they do nevertheless.

  • #34667
     kens 
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    Goodsteel;n15592 wrote: You have your opinion. I have mine.

    If you have a janky barrel, bedding the action isn’t going to help you. Adding a pressure point might convince some folks, but a match shooter will see the difference as being nothing more than a basket of rotten fruit moved one shelf higher.

    Rifle precision is about the barrel. Period. The various sundry details of the action do not even come into the picture until you’re working with a sub 1MOA rifle, and the whole blueprinting thing does exactly one thing, and that is to put the firing pin in the middle of the primer. But if you’re so concerned about that, you will certainly use no other brass than Lapua because theyre the only jokers that can juggle that many balls.
    Yes, I have measured it. I’ve measured the M77s, the Remington 700s, the Winchester 70, Savage, Surgeon, mini Mauser, FN, and any Mauser you can imagine. I’ve built precision rifles on all of them (it’s actually a pretty impressive number of rifles that have run through this place!).
    Anywho, I never saw an action that definitely convinced me that it contributed to the accuracy equation unless it was soooooo goshdam sloppy the case head was the thing that aligned the bolt in the receiver. (that was BAD, but at least it was just a hunting rifle!).
    Other than that one, I’ve put people into a sub 3/4″ rifle with every action that has come through this place. We can talk about Ruger quality till the cows come home, but surely you’d agree that its better than a Turkish Mauser eh? Ask JRR how a MBT precision rifle shoots when its built on a Turk. 😉

    BjornB has one of the M77s I’ve built. I’ve got the ten shot stapled to my wall of fame. Group measures .568 for ten shots at 100. The range officer at the Arkansas game and fish range also shot that rifle. We swapped it back and forth between us and shot 4 10 shot sub 5/8″ groups.

    I don’t have the luxury of bias. All rifles come in shooting like garbage, or less than they used to, and all of them MUST LEAVE SHOOTING TEN SHOTS SUB MOA. It tears me up when I fail to make a shooter out of any lemon you might bring me. I cannot stand getting skunked, and it’s only happened two or three times, and each one had a questionable barrel on it. No rifle I have built with a Krieger barrel has failed to produce competitive groups. The smallest I’ve shot here was with a rifle built for BjornB at .314 for 10 shots.
    The average ten shot group with any rifle built here is .6-.75 MOA across the board. I’m not saying this to brag, I’m just saying that I’ve come to a point where I really don’t pay the action much mind until you start talking about ultra precision, in which case, it’s better to start with a BAT, Bernard, Surgeon etc etc etc.
    That’s my experience. I’ve been stuck behind a Winchester that wouldn’t shoot better than 4MOA with hand loads. That’s a big part of the reason I am what I am today, but I didn’t blame the name rolled onto the receiver except to say “these jokers screwed a janky pipe into this perfectly wonderful action?”.

    Now, you’ll never hear me defend Ruger factory barrel quality (at least, not that of the past 50 years) but for how bad the barrels were, I’m actually fairly impressed with the quality of the actions. I’ve built on M77s from the 70s, 90’s and late models, and they’re quality is more consistent and unchanging than any other American action. Remington and Winchester have both made their flagship rifles with less QC than Russian Mosin Negants at one time or another and I had to make those POS’s shoot. One Remington I just finished for a friend of Larry Gibson’s was the worst yet. The receiver threads were .020 off center, and the top of the action was so badly out of spec that I had to bed the rail to the top of the receiver bridges! What I heard yesterday was that he was shooting .6-.7MOA groups with that rifle though.:rolleyes:
    Point is, I doubt Ruger EVER let something that bad out of their shop.

    Other reasons I would take the Ruger:
    It’s the last remaining family owned American mega firearms producer.
    Ruger warrants their stuff against defect better than anyone.
    It’s the only American made CRF at this point (other than Montana and I’m not sure they make their own stuff).
    Timney makes a very nice trigger for it, and they will set it to any weight you require if you order direct 😎

    May I ask, while the subject is fresh, ?
    Why is it some people believe the Mauser can shoot accurately, and others diss it?
    I’m speaking of lock time, here.
    If lock time in the mauser is so slow, why are bench resters as stated above still liking Winchesters? How can Tim claim accurate mausers if lock time is such an issue?
    I have shot many old military rifles, Springfields, Nagants, enfields, mausers, and I have no doubt that with proper bedding, trigger, and sights, some of them would go MOA.
    And all these I mention have lock time as slow as a mauser.
    If the bain of the mauser is lock time, then how can they do what they do? ( and all the offspring of it)

  • #34678
     Goodsteel 
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    kens:

    Most people have no real practical experience with precision at all. They are experts at parroting what they have read other people write.
    Ultimate precision is about knowing what to make right and what to let slide, handling the big issues first, and working your way towards the minutia. Uninformed shooters couldn’t tell you which is more important in a discussion involving lock time, action squareness/concentricity, and throat angle. These details are minutia, and mean exactly NOTHING to most shooters, because you’ve got to have a LOT of things going the right way to even see the difference. Now there are people out there who CAN see the difference, and those guys are often surrounded by people who wish they could shoot as well. When an expert shooter says “I sped up my locktime and it cut my groups 20% across the board” there’s a lot of people licking their pencils and flipping their notepads like crazy thinking that since that detail took the shooter from .5″ groups to .4″ it must take them from the 2″ they call sub MOA to 1″ they can call .5″.
    Nope. Sorry.
    Doesn’t work that way.

    Fact is, I can put people in a reliable sub3/4MOA situation on demand using Mauser actions (That’s for ten shot groups), but that doesn’t mean they will shoot better reducing lock time. In fact, unless they can demonstrate sub 3/4 MOA on demand, I guarantee it wont do anything for them except give them a better feeling about their rifle.

    For instance, I recently built a rifle for a gentleman who is interested in long range shooting. From the day he picked up the rifle, he has reported 1.5″ ten shot groups with clusters. I have helped him with load data, and bullet selection etc etc etc, but nothing really seems to help. He brought the rifle back because the trigger broke (weird fluke!). I installed an original 8lb Remington trigger to get him by till a Jewel arrives. While we were at it, he asked me if I’d like to shoot the rifle, which I could tell was him needing me to confirm it’s precision for him. I benched the rifle and shot 5 (all he brought) into a tight little wad out at 100 yards. He said “Yep, that’s about what I was getting” looking a little red around the ears. I then asked if he’d like to shoot another of my precision rifles? He happily agreed. I instructed him how to hold this particular rifle and let him dry fire it three times to get the feel of the trigger. He tucked in behind it and slowly and methodically shot three bullets into around 1.5″. He said “I’m not really on my game today I guess”. I told him “Well, that happens.” Then I sat down and ripped off 8 quick shots into a group you could cover with a dime. (sigh)

    Like I said, it only matters when it matters. (BTW, the rifle I was shooting was a stock rifle with a Krieger barrel, Timney trigger, bedding, and a Vortex scope. IE, no competition action).
    Maybe JRR will weigh in on his MBT rifle. It’s a Turkish Mauser built with attention to the right details………

  • #34679
     kens 
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    So, then, for 90% of the shooters out there, there really isn’t any difference between a M98 and a Stolle Panda, in actual reality ??

  • #34680
     Harter 
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    I see this going down a rabbit hole ……..

    I’m not a precision Rifleman . But …..
    Half of a rifles best performance is the shooters confidence in the rifle .
    If the shooter believes that the titanium firing pin and Jewel trigger make it shoot better it will .
    If the shooter buys “better” sights that work better , or are precieved too , they will within the limits of the big parts .

    I can’t shoot sub 3/4″ groups consistently from a bench not do I regularly shoot well on clays . But I’ve punched the aorta off a running hog at 20 paces with a 45 Colts carbines and killed honkers stone dead at 50 yd passing and I don’t even count the flushing and head on ducks . Quail psych me out every time , I’ve killed a limit dove with a 410. I dropped a standing mule deer with a neck shot at 350 yd paced Google Earth and 35+ yr gives 340-375 yd .
    The wonder of it ? Wasn’t the 25-06 on the 700BDL with the bull barrel and the 4# target trigger , it was because I didn’t know I could miss with that rifle . I knew the rifle was capable of qt milk cartons at 300yd and half gallons at 500. It didn’t hurt anything that my rest was an 8000# granite boulder .

    ​​​​​​Start talking about rail mounted guns with remote triggers and 2″ of steel wrapped around a 1/4″ rifled hole and shooter confidence in the tool all goes out the window now your talking about all of the minutiae mattering . Of course that’s also a barrel that’s all done when groups exceed 1 bullet diameter .

    You can’t get groups if the chamber doesn’t line up with the bore . You won’t get them if the bolt face isn’t perpendicular to that bore either . As Tim says that’s the big stuff .

    ​​​​​

  • #34689
     Goodsteel 
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    kens;n15769 wrote: So, then, for 90% of the shooters out there, there really isn’t any difference between a M98 and a Stolle Panda, in actual reality ??

    I’d say that’s about right. Not that they can’t get there eventually, but I shoot every day and precision is the thing I strive for constantly. I figure with my customs I’m good for .65MOA with a Mauser. and I have shot .314 with a blueprinted Remington I built for Bjornb (10 shots with GSF witnesses) and I did about the same with a Panda bench rifle (10 shots with local witnesses).
    Point is, for all my practice and attention to detail, you’re talking about 5/16″ difference in group size, and if I cut another 3/16″ off that, I might be competitive.

    Yeah, the Mauser can’t hang with the blueprinted Remington or the Panda, Surgeon, or Stolle, but lets quantify that a little. There’s very little practical difference between .65 and .180. Now I can get somebody to shoot .75″ for ten shots on my bench if they listen to what I tell them to do and they have steady nerves, but there are only a handful of shooters I’ve shot shoulder to shoulder with who can deliver 1/2MOA on demand. Very very few.

    Add to that the fact that most folks get all week in the knees if they manage to put three in a perfectly connected cloverleaf (even at 50 yards) and a properly built Mauser is more precision than they can put to use.

    Fortunately, we have more than our fair share of gentlemen who can tell the difference very easily right here on GSF, which is part of what makes this place such a rich environment. Truth be told, I wouldn’t want to shoot for big money against half the fellows on this forum, because they are using the rifles I’ve built to cut my test groups in half. So take what I’ve said above with a grain of salt. I’m just saying that for me, a .650 rifle is precise enough to challenge me to keep shooting because it’s precise enough to let me know when I screw up, but not loose enough to give me any excuse when I do. One day, I want to invest the time and money into building a second decimal rifle for myself, but until then, I’m perfectly happy in the knowledge that I’ve got enough to keep progressing in skill with any properly built rifle with a quality barrel.
    I think there’s a lot of people out there who are hoping they can take a super precision rifle and make up for their lack of skill and trigger time, but it just doesn’t work that way, and like the hombre mentioned in my previous post, they would do well to put in the time and trigger squeezin’s with something that doesn’t cost a rebarrel every 1500 shots. That’s part of the reason I believe so strongly in the cast bullet discipline. It forces a novice to pay attention to detail, and gives ample opportunity for trigger time without wearing out the barrel.

    Think about it: A feller can take a Mauser rifle, screw in a Krieger barrel, bed it in a Boyde’s stock, install a cheap Timney trigger, put a Vortex Diamondback scope on it, and learn to shoot sub MOA at long range for relatively low investment.
    Once that feller’s got it to where he just cannot get his groups below .5 MOA, but he’s scaring the hell out of it on a regular basis, THEN he can drop the large coin on a Panda with the uber short lock time, and the Jewel trigger, and the Nightforce optics, and what’s more, he actually has the skill to use it.

  • #34693
     kens 
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    Yeah, I understand that, it makes perfect sense.
    And then if you are out at 100yds or more, you got to dope the wind, striving for 5/16″ groups you would dope the wind even in relatively close. And doping the wind will open up the groups to where the difference is even less. Take into consideration the wind & mirage, it even harder to get those tight groups, mauser or no mauser.

  • #34694
     Goodsteel 
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    kens;n15790 wrote: Yeah, I understand that, it makes perfect sense.
    And then if you are out at 100yds or more, you got to dope the wind, striving for 5/16″ groups you would dope the wind even in relatively close. And doping the wind will open up the groups to where the difference is even less. Take into consideration the wind & mirage, it even harder to get those tight groups, mauser or no mauser.

    A very good point. Some of the uber precision infatuation loses it’s luster when you realize that a man who can shoot in the wind can give a 100 yard benchrester a good spankin at 600 yards+. That’s where I’m at now. I’m learning to read wind. There is no way I can machine away that reality, or club it to death with bench smarts, and it matters more than gravity.
    Shooting through the wind is the true rifleman’s sport. Having a precision rifle is a wonderful thing, and gives you a very nice edge, but it doesn’t mean anything if you can’t read the wind. A 6mm bullet traveling at 2700 fps can be blown 5/8″ off POA at 100 yards by a light 3:00 breeze. May not seem like much, but move the target back to 400 yards, and you’re talking about some serious drift. I hate to say it, but lock time really doesn’t amount to a hill of beans in that situation.
    I guess what I’m saying is, it all boils down to priorities and keeping the main thing the main thing. I figure if your goal is to hit a target a long way off, precision larger than 1MOA is going to be a pain because coupled with wind, you have very little control over where that shot will land, but if you have a solid .6MOA rifle, load and shooter, you’ve got everything you need to shoot and hit your mark waaaaaayyyy out yonder, and if you miss, you won’t blame anything but the grey stuff between your earmuffs, and it’s got to be a REALLY janky action to prevent me from making a rifle do that, and 99% of the Mausers I’ve built on are well suited for the job.

  • #34801
     Goodsteel 
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    You better believe that Surgeon, Stiller, BAT, and Bernard absolutely HATE your rifle JRR. And Larry’s, and Bjornb’s and………….

  • #34879
     JRR 
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    If I were to start a new build today, I’d start with a basic Tikka. Extremely smooth, super strong and quality beyond most others. Have Tim install a Kreiger barrel, a high quality scope rail and precision bed a stock that fits. Triggers are quite good, but Jard and others offer upgrades.

    Then go out and hunt reindeer or musk ox.

  • #34884
     Goodsteel 
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    JRR;n16072 wrote: If I were to start a new build today, I’d start with a basic Tikka. Extremely smooth, super strong and quality beyond most others. Have Tim install a Kreiger barrel, a high quality scope rail and precision bed a stock that fits. Triggers are quite good, but Jard and others offer upgrades.

    Then go out and hunt reindeer or musk ox.

    Well, other than the fact of the Tikka being a metric action, you’re absolutely correct Jeff. You get a whole lot with the Finn rifle, including a very nice trigger. The Japanese Howa 1500 is another that is extremely smooth and built with superior quality (but again, it’s a metric action which I cannot build on).
    One rifle that I’m keeping a sharp eye on is the new Ruger Precision Rifle. I’m thinking a new barrel in that rifle will make for a whole lot of sweetness in an inexpensive package.

  • #49721
     Artful 
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    Tim, why can’t you work metric actions?  Do you just need the change gears to convert your lath to metric?

  • #49750
     Goodsteel 
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    That is correct Art. My lathe is the bomb.com for 99% of gunsmithing out there and I can handle everything from 50MBG barrel profiling to 1/16″ pins, but I can’t cut metric. One day i’ll invest in a small lathe that can get metric jobs done, but for the moment, I’m going to have to roll with what I’ve got.

    I’ve tried to find the gears, but alas, they are hens teeth. The lathe is a LeBlond Regal 17″ swing if you ever come across the gears somewhere.

  • #49754
     Artful 
    Participant
    • Gold
    • ★★★
    • Posts: 186
    • Comments: 427
    • Overall: 613

    Tim have you contacted http://leblondusa.com/leblond/ ?

  • #50365
     Artful 
    Participant
    • Gold
    • ★★★
    • Posts: 186
    • Comments: 427
    • Overall: 613
  • #50369
     lkydvl 
    Participant
    • Bronze
    • Posts: 3
    • Comments: 9
    • Overall: 12

    Tim,

    “A feller can take a Mauser rifle, screw in a Krieger barrel, bed it in a Boyde’s stock, install a cheap Timney trigger, put a Vortex Diamondback scope on it, and learn to shoot sub MOA at long range for relatively low investment.
    Once that feller’s got it to where he just cannot get his groups below .5 MOA, but he’s scaring the hell out of it on a regular basis, THEN he can drop the large coin on a Panda with the uber short lock time, and the Jewel trigger, and the Nightforce optics, and what’s more, he actually has the skill to use it.”

     

    Best piece of advice to anyone looking for a rifle.

     

    It sure shoots holes in the “buy the accuracy I want” theory of 99% of shooters.

     

    Andre`

     

  • #50387
     Darren McCann 
    Participant
    • Bronze
    • Posts: 3
    • Comments: 14
    • Overall: 17

    Good evening,

    Although this thread  is over a year old it is something I went through earlier this year. After shooting “Dawn” with Larry December 2017. I started the procedure of putting together a HV cast rifle.

    This is the third rifle I have built or had put together. The first was a 6mm bench rest rifle with a twist. I made it with the normal heavy stock and a lightened stock to make it easier to pack around. I wanted a rifle to shoot gophers and also coyotes with. Then for whatever reason I wanted a 35 Whelen. The LGS had received a SAKO left hand rifle that was almost destroyed, tuliped barrel and broken stock. Somehow it fell over loaded and was run over, it went off with the barrel full of dirt. So it split the barrel and broke the stock. After it hung on the wall as a conversation piece for a year or so, I asked if I could have it. They gave it to me, but it had to be fired 20 times. I cut the barrel off and strapped the rest into a tire, hid behind the wall of the garage and pulled the string 20 times. My Mother witnessed the event. 30-06 out of a short, 6” barrel, is very loud was what she told the owner of the LGS. It made a perfect 35 Whelen rifle. But…… this rifle, I wanted to choose components that would be useable if this rifle didn’t produce what I wanted. Cast 30XCB@2900 FPS. I was going  to take the barrel off the SAKO and put a new barrel on it. Then talked to Larry and had a line on a Savage 22-250 with a burned out barrel. It was one of those FVSS? single shot, before I could reply it was gone. Next a Remington barreled action was available. Talked to the shop and by the time they “cleaned it up” it was close to the price of a custom made  action they build for their bench rest and long range rifles. It/their rifles are very competitive with the Stolle’s, BAT and Pandas. So dollars to donuts, I choose the custom action. We will see after shooting it, six months from now, if I made the right choice. So far it looks like a winner!!

    Check out “Another HV cast boolit rifle” for the shooting story.

    Darren McCann

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